Date:         Fri, 23 May 2014 09:17:59 -0700
Reply-To:     Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Where do you get your coolant?
Comments: To: mcneely4@cox.net
In-Reply-To:  <20140522202940.JWOSX.237761.imail@eastrmwml301>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I don't understand the rationale about RO vs. distilled, but I'm pretty sure it just applies to cooling systems using only water and No-Rosion.  Makes no sense to me when you dilute it 50% with coolant, it won't matter.

The reality is you can't stop people from using tap water, and apparently that destroyed a lot of engines in Europe.

I do use tap water as do most folks (including shops) around here.  I'm in Seattle where our water comes from mountain snowmelt a few miles away, and published analysis shows no measurable Ca or Mg.  Not much of anything else either except a bit of tin, which comes from the stannous fluoride added after filtering.  I also have a whole-house water filter to keep any crud from the pipes out of my plumbing. 

I like to live on the edge! ;-)

Stuart

-----Original Message-----
From: mcneely4@cox.net [mailto:mcneely4@cox.net] 
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 5:30 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM; Stuart MacMillan
Subject: RE: [VANAGON] Where do you get your coolant?

Thanks Stuart.  the boric acid (tetraborate) is the main buffer in the product, it looks like.

So far as the highly mineralized European water, well, I suppose.  I have read a number of articles making that point, likely all repeating it from some single original source.  The fact is that in much of the western and central U.S., the waters are as or more highly mineralized as those in Europe.

I use distilled water (even though according to No Rosion it has been "stripped" of minerals, evidently a bad thing) in the cooling systems on my vehicles. I would be just as satisfied but not more so with deionized water produced by reverse osmosis or other means.  mcneely

---- Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@gmail.com> wrote: 
> According to the bottle, no:  Sodium hydroxide, sodium nitrite, sodium tetraborate, and sodium mercaptobenzothiazole are, and all are hazardous materials.
> 
> Here is an interesting article on phosphate in antifreeze:
> http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/841/coolant-fundamentals 
> 
> This fellow says high mineral concentration in European water was the main reason for eliminating phosphates.  They form compounds that precipitate when calcium and magnesium are present.  These deposits lead to corrosion underneath.
> 
> Stuart 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mcneely4@cox.net [mailto:mcneely4@cox.net] 
> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 12:31 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM; Stuart MacMillan
> Subject: RE: [VANAGON] Where do you get your coolant?
> 
> Ok.  But I still wonder about the No Rosion, even though I will not be using it.  The reason for phosphate (phosphoric acid) in coolant is as a buffer.  As a "tribasic" acid, it has three available hydrogen ions for buffering.  Works wonderfully well.  Perchance, does No Rosion contain phosphate as the buffering agent?  Again, I have no reason to use it, I just am curious about its chemistry.  mcneely
> 
> 
> 

--
David McNeely