Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 12:15:58 -0500
Reply-To: mcneely4@COX.NET
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dave Mcneely <mcneely4@COX.NET>
Subject: Re: Where do you get your coolant?
In-Reply-To: <5gCn1o00T08X5Fr01gCp9n>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
---- James <jk_eaton@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> Yes, I wondered about that 'European waters are so mineralised' bafflegab too - water in much of northern Europe, including the UK, is very soft and low in minerals, while water in much of North America - much of Eastern Canada, all of the Prairies, west and central USA, New England - is very high in calcium/magnesium/othe minerals.
>
> VW mechanics in east coast Canada in the '70s and '80s explained that phosphates in the coolant caused damage to the aluminum heads, if I recall my old Rabbit's manual correctly (I remember having to find phosphate-free coolant back then, too, and using distilled water). Of course, water there is often mineral-rich.
>
> No-Rosion is right that distilled water is 'stripped' of minerals, which is why it is GOOD for cooling systems and batteries. We were warned in the chemistry lab not to drink it too often, though, as the lack of minerals was bad for people! (Though I was certain that was a joke meant to stop us drinking an expensive lab material.)
James, my bafflement regarding the "No Rosion" use of the word "stripped" had to do with the wording making it seem that "stripped" was some technical process that made distilled water differ in quality from deionized water produced by reverse osmosis. It may differ, in that water produced by reverse osmosis may have volatiles and other organics present that are removed by distillation. But the reverse osmosis mechanism, being that it involves water being pressed through an osmotic membrane by force, a membrane through which ionically charged particles do not pass, is as mineral depauperate as is distilled water. The "stripping" mechanism is a different one, but both remove minerals. A sodium ion no present is just as not present regardless of how it was removed.
>
> James,
> Ottawa, ON
>
> > Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 19:29:40 -0500
> > From: mcneely4@COX.NET
> > Subject: Re: Where do you get your coolant?
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> >
> > Thanks Stuart. the boric acid (tetraborate) is the main buffer in the product, it looks like.
> >
> > So far as the highly mineralized European water, well, I suppose. I have read a number of articles making that point, likely all repeating it from some single original source. The fact is that in much of the western and central U.S., the waters are as or more highly mineralized as those in Europe.
> >
> > I use distilled water (even though according to No Rosion it has been "stripped" of minerals, evidently a bad thing) in the cooling systems on my vehicles. I would be just as satisfied but not more so with deionized water produced by reverse osmosis or other means. mcneely
> >
> > ---- Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > According to the bottle, no: Sodium hydroxide, sodium nitrite, sodium tetraborate, and sodium mercaptobenzothiazole are, and all are hazardous materials.
> > >
> > > Here is an interesting article on phosphate in antifreeze:
> > > http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/841/coolant-fundamentals
> > >
> > > This fellow says high mineral concentration in European water was the main reason for eliminating phosphates. They form compounds that precipitate when calcium and magnesium are present. These deposits lead to corrosion underneath.
> > >
> > > Stuart
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mcneely4@cox.net [mailto:mcneely4@cox.net]
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 12:31 PM
> > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM; Stuart MacMillan
> > > Subject: RE: [VANAGON] Where do you get your coolant?
> > >
> > > Ok. But I still wonder about the No Rosion, even though I will not be using it. The reason for phosphate (phosphoric acid) in coolant is as a buffer. As a "tribasic" acid, it has three available hydrogen ions for buffering. Works wonderfully well. Perchance, does No Rosion contain phosphate as the buffering agent? Again, I have no reason to use it, I just am curious about its chemistry. mcneely
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > David McNeely
>
--
David McNeely
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