Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 19:39:12 -0700
Reply-To: Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: $100 Reward to Solve Starter Problem
In-Reply-To: <BLU174-W244FB3065CE352DE932E6D2010@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Scott's got a good diagnostic path to follow, but I think you have a short
in a wire bundle somewhere. Since the smoke came from under the seat, start
there. Carefully cut and peel back the loom cover and start looking.
The starter solenoid wire from the ignition switch is an 8 gauge wire, and
something must be shorted to it. I have no idea where it is routed in the
Vanagon though.
Good luck, and I wouldn't install that new ECU until you figure out the
short!
Stuart
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Richard Golen
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2014 6:33 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: $100 Reward to Solve Starter Problem
Dear Vanagon List Members,
I am offering a $100 Reward for the solution to my starter problem. Please
read all of this carefully before suggesting your solution. The reward will
be sent via PayPal or via check.
The
"patient" is a 1987 Vanagon Westfalia with a manual transmission. The
"problem" starter solenoid will not disengage when key released from "start"
position. Sometimes, I can quickly switch off and back off and the starter
will briefly disengage, but will re-engage.
Here's what I have observed. On a trip to Lime Rock Park two weeks ago,
while on the interstate, smoke and electrical wire burning smell started
coming out of the area under the rear seat in the area of the ECU. I quickly
shut off the engine, coasted to the breakdown lane. Popped the rear seat and
the cover to the ECU to see if the problem was, in fact, the ECU. The only
thing I noticed was the cooling fins on the ECU seemed to be hot. I let it
cool down, restarted the engine, and drove off. No problems the rest of the
trip to Lime Rock.
Two days later when we were leaving LRP, I started the engine and the revs
went from 800 to 1500 to 2000 to 2500. Blipped the throttle, no change. Shut
off the engine, and checked the engine. Throttle and cable were not binding.
I disconnected the idle stabilizer and the revs dropped to 800. While
checking things out, I noticed that one of the wires from the power steering
sensor had come loose and grounded out. Taped the connector so it wouldn't
ground out again on the way home.
The next day I installed a new Bosch rebuilt starter. I had planned on
replacing the starter as it was getting old. The new starter worked
perfectly. However, the next morning when I started the van the starter
would not disengage. Shut off the ignition, turn it back to on, engine was
running but the starter did not disengage. I did put the old starter back
in, and it too was doing the same thing. Put new starter back in.
Here's what I've done so far:
1. replaced the ignition switch. Still same problem.
2. made a jumper for the ignition switch plug with 4 male terminals. One
terminal to the + from the battery, one to the fuel pump side of the switch,
one to the ignition (warning lights came on with this), then I jumped the
wire to the starter solenoid. Engine started, disconnected wire.
Engine ran, but starter did not disengage.
Tried it again. Starter did not disengage when I disconnected the starter
wire. This time, I disconnected the fuel pump wire and the starter
disengaged. With my multimeter, I checked the voltage at the solenoid. No
voltage with the switch off. With the switch on, but not to start, power to
the solenoid. Disconnected the fuel pump wire at the ignition plug, and the
power to the solenoid lead went off...no voltage.
3. Disconnected the auxiliary battery and auxiliary battery relay. No
change.
4. Checked the wiring harness in the engine compartment that contains the
leads to the power steering sensor and the plug to the idle stabilizer. The
power lead wire to the sensor had grounded out, heated up and melted its
insulation as well as some of the insulation to the power lead to the
stabilizer.
I figured voila! Found the problem. Repaired the wire to the stabilizer, put
in a new section of wire for the power steering switch. Started the engine,
and starter would not disengage.
5. Swapped out the idle sensor relay. No change.
6. I removed the ECU and popped the cover. I couldn't see anything that
looked burned.
I've poured over wiring diagrams in the Bentley as well as some that are
online and am at a loss. The only other potential part that could be
remotely related to this issue is the ECU. I have a spare one coming in the
next few days, but don't want to put it in until I'm sure I'm not going to
damage it.
The only option I see is to run a new wire from the ignition switch to the
solenoid, perhaps using a relay.
So, here's the challenge. What could be the problem? I will pay $100 to the
person who is able to diagnose the problem and I can get the starter to work
properly. I will be more than happy to provide more info or answer any
questions.
Thanks in advance.
Ric
87 Westfalia
=