Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 17:11:51 -1000
Reply-To: "SDF ( aka ;jim lahey' - Scott )" <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: "SDF ( aka ;jim lahey' - Scott )" <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Organization: Cosmic Reminders
Subject: Re: $100 Reward to Solve Starter Problem
In-Reply-To: <020e01cf9667$f9decd80$ed9c6880$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
this is a good theory to work on ..
and indeed ....uncover wire bundles and look or test for damage and shorts.
it's a little hard to access...
but ..ahead of the thermostat housing ( on a 2.1 ) on the frame rail up
in there...
'all' the wires that go from front to back are in a bundle there ...
and the main solenoid trigger wire is easy to identify above the
transaxle on the way to the starter .
it wouldn't hurt to disconnect both ends of that wire and then check for
continuity from it to the power steering switch wires .
On 7/2/2014 4:39 PM, Stuart MacMillan wrote:
> Scott's got a good diagnostic path to follow, but I think you have a short
> in a wire bundle somewhere. Since the smoke came from under the seat, start
> there. Carefully cut and peel back the loom cover and start looking.
>
> The starter solenoid wire from the ignition switch is an 8 gauge wire, and
> something must be shorted to it. I have no idea where it is routed in the
> Vanagon though.
>
> Good luck, and I wouldn't install that new ECU until you figure out the
> short!
>
> Stuart
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> Richard Golen
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2014 6:33 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: $100 Reward to Solve Starter Problem
>
> Dear Vanagon List Members,
>
>
>
> I am offering a $100 Reward for the solution to my starter problem. Please
> read all of this carefully before suggesting your solution. The reward will
> be sent via PayPal or via check.
>
> The
> "patient" is a 1987 Vanagon Westfalia with a manual transmission. The
> "problem" starter solenoid will not disengage when key released from "start"
> position. Sometimes, I can quickly switch off and back off and the starter
> will briefly disengage, but will re-engage.
>
> Here's what I have observed. On a trip to Lime Rock Park two weeks ago,
> while on the interstate, smoke and electrical wire burning smell started
> coming out of the area under the rear seat in the area of the ECU. I quickly
> shut off the engine, coasted to the breakdown lane. Popped the rear seat and
> the cover to the ECU to see if the problem was, in fact, the ECU. The only
> thing I noticed was the cooling fins on the ECU seemed to be hot. I let it
> cool down, restarted the engine, and drove off. No problems the rest of the
> trip to Lime Rock.
>
> Two days later when we were leaving LRP, I started the engine and the revs
> went from 800 to 1500 to 2000 to 2500. Blipped the throttle, no change. Shut
> off the engine, and checked the engine. Throttle and cable were not binding.
> I disconnected the idle stabilizer and the revs dropped to 800. While
> checking things out, I noticed that one of the wires from the power steering
> sensor had come loose and grounded out. Taped the connector so it wouldn't
> ground out again on the way home.
>
> The next day I installed a new Bosch rebuilt starter. I had planned on
> replacing the starter as it was getting old. The new starter worked
> perfectly. However, the next morning when I started the van the starter
> would not disengage. Shut off the ignition, turn it back to on, engine was
> running but the starter did not disengage. I did put the old starter back
> in, and it too was doing the same thing. Put new starter back in.
>
>
> Here's what I've done so far:
>
> 1. replaced the ignition switch. Still same problem.
>
>
> 2. made a jumper for the ignition switch plug with 4 male terminals. One
> terminal to the + from the battery, one to the fuel pump side of the switch,
> one to the ignition (warning lights came on with this), then I jumped the
> wire to the starter solenoid. Engine started, disconnected wire.
> Engine ran, but starter did not disengage.
>
> Tried it again. Starter did not disengage when I disconnected the starter
> wire. This time, I disconnected the fuel pump wire and the starter
> disengaged. With my multimeter, I checked the voltage at the solenoid. No
> voltage with the switch off. With the switch on, but not to start, power to
> the solenoid. Disconnected the fuel pump wire at the ignition plug, and the
> power to the solenoid lead went off...no voltage.
>
>
> 3. Disconnected the auxiliary battery and auxiliary battery relay. No
> change.
>
>
> 4. Checked the wiring harness in the engine compartment that contains the
> leads to the power steering sensor and the plug to the idle stabilizer. The
> power lead wire to the sensor had grounded out, heated up and melted its
> insulation as well as some of the insulation to the power lead to the
> stabilizer.
>
> I figured voila! Found the problem. Repaired the wire to the stabilizer, put
> in a new section of wire for the power steering switch. Started the engine,
> and starter would not disengage.
>
>
>
> 5. Swapped out the idle sensor relay. No change.
>
>
> 6. I removed the ECU and popped the cover. I couldn't see anything that
> looked burned.
>
>
>
> I've poured over wiring diagrams in the Bentley as well as some that are
> online and am at a loss. The only other potential part that could be
> remotely related to this issue is the ECU. I have a spare one coming in the
> next few days, but don't want to put it in until I'm sure I'm not going to
> damage it.
>
>
> The only option I see is to run a new wire from the ignition switch to the
> solenoid, perhaps using a relay.
>
>
>
> So, here's the challenge. What could be the problem? I will pay $100 to the
> person who is able to diagnose the problem and I can get the starter to work
> properly. I will be more than happy to provide more info or answer any
> questions.
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
> Ric
>
> 87 Westfalia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> =
>
| 
