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Date:         Sat, 5 Jul 2014 11:52:09 -0700
Reply-To:     Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: $100 Reward to Solve Starter Problem
Comments: To: Richard Golen <rgolen@HOTMAIL.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <BLU404-EAS3296179D4E3E1DFAB388260D2030@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

It sure sounds like a melted wire in the harness is shorting to the solenoid wire. You could check by sticking a voltmeter probe into the 8 gauge solenoid wire near the ignition switch and turn to "on" and check if there is any voltage to the solenoid wire (there has to be, IMHO). I'm betting there is enough shorted contact to make it hot, but not enough current to throw the solenoid in the "on position." When it is thrown, it takes much less current to hold it there, hence it's not disengaging when returning to "on."

If you see voltage in the "on" position, then I'd just run a new wire to the solenoid from the switch and cut the old one, and forget about sorting it out. Just use a butt crimp connector at the switch and crimp on a terminal at the solenoid.

You could test this first by running the wire inside the van over the seats into the engine compartment and see if it fixes the problem. Then route it under the van.

You can send my $100 to the PIFF as well.

Good luck!

Stuart

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Richard Golen Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2014 3:47 AM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: $100 Reward to Solve Starter Problem

Just turning the switch to "on" will not engage the starter. The starter will engage when turned to start, and will stay engaged when turned to "on". Also, if I start it, turn the key to "on" and bring the revs up, quickly turn the key to "off" and back to "on", the starter will briefly disengage and then will try to re-engage.

Ric

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 5, 2014, at 2:44, "OlRivrRat" <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET> wrote: > > Richard > > Just to clarify 1 point ~ If you turn the Ign'Switch to "On" > does the Solenoid Activate > > or do you have to Switch to "Start" to get it to Activate & then when > returning to "On" it > > will not Disengage ~ > >

> ORR ~ DeanB > > >> On 2 Jul , 2014, at 7:32 PM, Richard Golen wrote: >> >> Dear Vanagon List Members, >> >> >> >> I am offering a $100 Reward for the solution to my starter problem. >> Please read all of this carefully before suggesting your solution. >> The reward will be sent via PayPal or via check. >> >> The >> "patient" is a 1987 Vanagon Westfalia with a manual transmission. The >> "problem" starter solenoid will not disengage when key released from >> "start" position. Sometimes, I can quickly switch off and back off >> and the starter will briefly disengage, but will re-engage. >> >> Here's what I have observed. On a trip to Lime Rock Park two weeks >> ago, while on the interstate, smoke and electrical wire burning smell >> started coming out of the area under the rear seat in the area of the >> ECU. I quickly shut off the engine, coasted to the breakdown lane. >> Popped the rear seat and the cover to the ECU to see if the problem >> was, in fact, the ECU. The only thing I noticed was the cooling fins >> on the ECU seemed to be hot. I let it cool down, restarted the >> engine, and drove off. No problems the rest of the trip to Lime Rock. >> >> Two days later when we were leaving LRP, I started the engine and the >> revs went from 800 to 1500 to 2000 to 2500. Blipped the throttle, no >> change. Shut off the engine, and checked the engine. Throttle and >> cable were not binding. I disconnected the idle stabilizer and the >> revs dropped to 800. While checking things out, I noticed that one of >> the wires from the power steering sensor had come loose and grounded >> out. Taped the connector so it wouldn't ground out again on the way home. >> >> The next day I installed a new Bosch rebuilt starter. I had planned >> on replacing the starter as it was getting old. The new starter >> worked perfectly. However, the next morning when I started the van >> the starter would not disengage. Shut off the ignition, turn it back >> to on, engine was running but the starter did not disengage. I did >> put the old starter back in, and it too was doing the same thing. Put >> new starter back in. >> >> >> Here's what I've done so far: >> >> 1. replaced the ignition switch. Still same problem. >> >> >> 2. made a jumper for the ignition switch plug with 4 male terminals. >> One terminal to the + from the battery, one to the fuel pump side of >> the switch, one to the ignition (warning lights came on with this), >> then I jumped the wire to the starter solenoid. Engine started, disconnected wire. >> Engine ran, but starter did not disengage. >> >> Tried it again. Starter did not disengage when I disconnected the >> starter wire. This time, I disconnected the fuel pump wire and the >> starter disengaged. With my multimeter, I checked the voltage at the >> solenoid. No voltage with the switch off. With the switch on, but not >> to start, power to the solenoid. Disconnected the fuel pump wire at >> the ignition plug, and the power to the solenoid lead went off...no voltage. >> >> >> 3. Disconnected the auxiliary battery and auxiliary battery relay. No >> change. >> >> >> 4. Checked the wiring harness in the engine compartment that contains >> the leads to the power steering sensor and the plug to the idle >> stabilizer. The power lead wire to the sensor had grounded out, >> heated up and melted its insulation as well as some of the insulation >> to the power lead to the stabilizer. >> >> I figured voila! Found the problem. Repaired the wire to the >> stabilizer, put in a new section of wire for the power steering >> switch. Started the engine, and starter would not disengage. >> >> >> >> 5. Swapped out the idle sensor relay. No change. >> >> >> 6. I removed the ECU and popped the cover. I couldn't see anything >> that looked burned. >> >> >> >> I've poured over wiring diagrams in the Bentley as well as some that >> are online and am at a loss. The only other potential part that could >> be remotely related to this issue is the ECU. I have a spare one >> coming in the next few days, but don't want to put it in until I'm >> sure I'm not going to damage it. >> >> >> The only option I see is to run a new wire from the ignition switch >> to the solenoid, perhaps using a relay. >> >> >> >> So, here's the challenge. What could be the problem? I will pay $100 >> to the person who is able to diagnose the problem and I can get the >> starter to work properly. I will be more than happy to provide more >> info or answer any questions. >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> >> >> Ric >> >> 87 Westfalia >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>


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