Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:42:08 -0500
Reply-To: Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: They said it couldn't be done....
In-Reply-To: <20140825102441.M264L.239331.imail@eastrmwml113>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
We have a gen 1 prius and, as you point out, the motor comes on A LOT to
run the AC, but it doesn't seem to have a very big effect on the mileage.
I was surprised to find that the newer models had electric AC, and I did
some investigating to find out its suitability for the Vanagon. I was
quickly dismayed by the amps required, and especially how far that
requirement exceeded the poor alternator's ability to keep up (not to
mention the battery capacity required).
It is one thing for the big old system in a Prius to handle it, another for
a Vanagon, which was not designed for it. I see cars moving to higher and
higher voltage systems anyway, hybrid or not, to handle all the demands of
"modern" cars. Just another way that the gulf between Vanagons and the cars
of the future will be ever-widening for good and bad.
Jim
On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Dave Mcneely <mcneely4@cox.net> wrote:
> I was mistaken about the HEAT (not the AC) of the Prius. Despite having
> the car for years now, I still don't know everything about how it works.
> The cabin heat is conventional, with a heater core. It also has a
> resistance heater to provide some heat to the cabin almost instantly,
> because even with the heat conservation system in the engine coolant
> pathway (essentially a thermos bottle) coolant warm up is slower than
> resistance. I do know that within seconds of startup, I have heat for the
> cabin and the defroster. Because coolant temperature drops when the engine
> is not running, despite the thermos bottle, the engine may run more more in
> cold weather than in moderate weather, so mileage improves in spring, but
> falls again in winter.
>
> mcneely
>
> ---- James <jk_eaton@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > I don't know about the Prius, but I do know that Toyota has used a heat
> pump system, electrically driven, in vehicles, because the 1998 RAV4
> electric I test drove (thanks to Georgia Power) had a heat pump system for
> cooling and heating - it was good down to about 30F/-2C, and below that had
> an electric heating element to assist it. One nifty feature was that you
> could program the heat pump to come on 20 minutes before you needed the
> car, so it could heated or cooled before you got in.
> >
> > Given their success with that system, I'm surprised that Toyota wouldn't
> use it on the Prius - the heating component saved on electricity compared
> to regular resistive element heating. But, it was more expensive to build.
> >
> > James
> > Ottawa, ON
> >
> > > Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 13:07:44 -0500
> > > From: mcneely4@COX.NET
> > > Subject: Re: They said it couldn't be done....
> > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > >
> > > ---- Jim Felder <jim.felder@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I looked into the electrical AC in the Prius a while back,
> interesting. Is
> > > > any manufacturer using them like a heat pump, to provide heat, too?
> > > >
> > > > Jim
> > >
> > > I have a Prius. The AC is driven by an electric motor rather than by
> the gasoline engine because the engine shuts off periodically, and in town
> driving, frequently. Of course, if the compressor were engine rather than
> motor driven, then it would shut off, too. The first Prius models in fact
> were like that. People didn't like it.
> > >
> > > I have not heard of any automotive AC system operated as a heat pump.
> Interesting thought, might improve efficiency, and thus mpg a tiny amount.
> mcneely
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 9:50 AM, Dave Mcneely <mcneely4@cox.net>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Heat would have to be resistance, AC would have to be driven by
> separate
> > > > > electric motor (latter would be like most hybrids and EVs on the
> road now,
> > > > > factory built). Interesting that it indicates a manual
> transmission. Not
> > > > > common in electrically driven vehicles. mcneely
> > > > >
> > > > > ---- Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> > > > > > Add doesn’t say if it has heat or air conditioning.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dennis
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]
> On Behalf
> > > > > Of Jim Felder
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 8:25 AM
> > > > > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > > > > Subject: They said it couldn't be done....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And maybe it couldn't, but here is an all-electric VW bus that
> the owner
> > > > > claims will run on the highway, 200 mile range, etc.:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://bham.craigslist.org/cto/4627305079.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jim
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > David McNeely
> > > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > David McNeely
> >
>
> --
> David McNeely
>
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