Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2014 12:40:52 -0500
Reply-To: mcneely4@COX.NET
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dave Mcneely <mcneely4@COX.NET>
Subject: Re: drive from Oklahoma to Spokane, WA
In-Reply-To: <z2121o01x4bQEJh01213fB>
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Well, as I said in my post, I dropped to third gear to keep the speed and rpms up. I am 69 years old and have driven manual transmissions all my driving life. Lugging is not something I do, and I think it is clear from my post that the engine was not lugged (third gear, 45 mph, rpms 3400, oil pressure 40 psi stated in the post). The knocking sound, very faint tapping that I heard was not a typical ping, which to me on most vehicles has always sounded like gravel rattling in a tin can, but was a regular tap as two pieces of metal, one bumping the other at a constant interval like someone keeping time to music.
I had switched to mid-grade fuel when I approached the mountains for two reasons: 1. I was unable to obtain ethanol free fuel along the highway, and 2. I anticipated the climbs I would have to make, and regular grade in those high altitude states (for legitimate reason, but it still troubles me a bit) is lower octane, usually 85.
The radiator was replaced four years (40k miles) ago with a new radiator. The coolant pump was replaced five years (50k miles) ago. The temperature indicator almost always sets dead on the led after the vehicle warms up, but occasionally in traffic in town with a lot of stop and go will rise to set on the upper edge of the led, and on those occasions, the high speed radiator fan usually comes on. On the trip, the only time that happened was climbing the pass.
mcneely
---- Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> wrote:
> As my first question regarding driving style, as the vehicle was losing speed di you down shift or just floor it hoping to keep up speed? This is known as lugging the engine and it is a driving style the Waterboxer does not like. In fact none of the VW opposed engines work well this way. They are short stroke, (low torque) engines that make their power by spinning. Down shift and then floor it. 4,500 rpm won't hurt it. Full throttle also enriches, (if the switch is working), the mixture also helping to reduce knock.
>
> If still traveling at 50mph or so and having the cooling system put the fan into high speed indicates your radiator is not fully doing able to its job. Maybe you were also using the Air conditioning. Having the temp gauge raise under extended load is somewhat normal but needing the fan to run on high speed should be a rare event. Make sure the air deflectors are in place on both sides and the bottom of the radiator.
>
> How is the ignition timing set? Driving conditions of this sort is where alternative timing methods or seat of the pants timing by feel get these engines in trouble. There are reasons the proper timing does not feel the best. These engines start to knock and ping long before you here it especially up front. If its knocking damage is being done.
>
> Have the injectors-cylinders been tested for balance? A lean injector or other imbalance can cause a cylinder to overheat and knock prematurely.
>
> You may also want to up the fuel quality when these conditions are anticipated.
>
> Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----ca
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Dave Mcneely
> Sent: Friday, October 3, 2014 8:28 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: drive from Oklahoma to Spokane, WA
>
> Bonnie and I drove our 1991 Volkswagen Vanagon GL Campmobile with 2.1 and manual transmission from Edmond, OK to Spokane, WA in preparation for our upcoming move to that city. We left the van there at our daughter's house, and flew home.
>
> The van ran fine for the whole trip. We went via Kansas, Nebraska, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Washington, mostly on interstate highways, and made the trip in three driving days, just stopping for necessities including overnight. This was not a pleasure trip, though we did enjoy seeing roadside landscapes we'd not experienced before in Nebraska, not having used this route before. BTW, the only mountains we noticed to have any snow to amount to anything at all on the whole trip were the Bighorns in Wyoming. The Bear Tooth Range was not really visible from the interstate highway, though it was probably snowy as well.
>
> My reason for posting has to do with the van's performance in Montana and Idaho, the only really mountainous part of the journey.
>
> On Pipestone Pass (continental divide in Montana, on I-90, as on other steep grades, we were forced to slow down, to under 50 mph. But, for the first time in five years and 50k miles of driving this beast, as we got past the halfway point on the pass, I started to hear a very faint knock from the engine. The engine was not overheated, though the temp indicator was on the top side of the led and the high speed radiator fan was on. The ambient temperature was about
> 80 F, very warm for the location for late September. The oil was conventional Castrol 20W50, and had been filled with new oil to the halfway point between the full and low marks on the oil stick before starting the trip. I pulled off at a truck pull out and checked the oil. It was at the full mark on the stick. I let the van set for 20 minutes and finished the pass. There was no knock until I was almost at the top, then it started again, very faint, almost a tapping sound. As soon as I started down the pass, the temp indicator dropped below the led, and the tapping went away. I did not hear it again until Fourth of July Pass in Idaho. It resurfaced there, but only as we neared the top.
>
> Bonnie and I discussed this matter at Pipestone Pass and several times through the rest of the drive. We concluded that the oil is heating above the temperature of the cooling system and thinning out, leaving bearings or other components hot and lubed with thin oil. BTW, the engine is equipped with a Ten Cent Life external oil cooler, and the oil filter is a Mehle. It did not show low oil pressure even when the tapping sound occurred or at idle when I pulled over. Oil pressure on the pass was around 25 psi when I was still in fourth gear, and increased to 40 psiwhen I had to drop to third gear to maintain 45 mph at 3400 rpm, and at idle between 5 and 10 psi.
>
> So, experts, am I looking at a rebuild or engine replacement? The beast runs great with no indications of low oil pressure. We drove it all over Spokane daily for ten days while there shopping for a house and the tapping never occurred again. Now it is parked in my daughter's garage until we move up there. It has 177k miles on it. New clutch. No indication of transmission problems ever. Camping in it is great.
>
> mcneely
--
David McNeely
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