Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 11:42:31 -0500
Reply-To: Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Weird idle problem continues
In-Reply-To: <01cb01cfec7c$00c69d70$0253d850$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
OK, good luck.
Jim
On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 10:39 AM, Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Thanks Jim, I'm going to try to fix mine just for fun. If that doesn't
> work it's plan B. I'll let you know.
>
> Stuart
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
> Of Jim Felder
> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 5:05 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Weird idle problem continues
>
> I have a spare idle stabilizer to loan out. Just give that part number so
> I know I am sending the right thing.
>
> Jim
>
> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 12:56 AM, OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Stuart
> >
> > I recently encountered an H2OBoxr that did not want to
> > IdleDown ~ don't remember how high the Revs were ~
> >
> > Don't think as high as 3K ~ Maybe closer to 2K ~ & the culprit turned
> > out to be the IdleStabilizerControlModule/Relay ~ Is
> >
> > there any chance you get an "local loaner" IdleStabilizerControlModule
> > to try ~
> >
> >
> > ORR ~ DeanB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 19 Oct , 2014, at 10:12 PM, Stuart MacMillan wrote:
> >
> > > I found a local loaner ECU and it didn't change anything. Now
> > > diving
> > deeper. It has a hot 1" spark, but I'll measure the coil tomorrow and
> > take a close look at the AFM and hall sensor.
> > >
> > > Stuart
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Dennis Haynes [mailto:d23haynes57@hotmail.com]
> > > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 7:41 AM
> > > To: 'Stuart MacMillan'; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > Subject: RE: Weird idle problem continues
> > >
> > > It is possible that you have a bad ECU or Hall sensor. I recently
> > > had a
> > van with these symptoms and it turned out to be the coil. Take the
> > coil out and test it with an ohmmeter. From the center post to the _
> > terminal should be ~4,500 ohms. The bad coil I had appeared OK at
> > 3,500 ohms, (not open or
> > shorted) but that was the problem. It had a week spark. That can also
> > confuse the idle controller.
> > >
> > > Dennis
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Stuart MacMillan [mailto:stuartmacm@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 6:17 PM
> > > To: 'Dennis Haynes'; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > Subject: RE: Weird idle problem continues
> > >
> > > With the ISV connected. Unplug it and it won't idle at all, even
> > > after a
> > few minutes of holding down the pedal. Plug it in, and it's up to
> > 3500 rpm, 2000 with the T2 disconnected. T2 voltage drops from 4.98
> > to 1 volt when I plug it in with the engine barely warm, measured with
> > my Fluke meter by sticking the probe into the back of the connector.
> > Bentley shows resistance dropping with increasing temp. There are two
> > wires coming to the voltage terminal, and one ground wire from the other.
> > >
> > > With ISV plugged in and pinched off it won't idle. Adjusted throttle
> > stop per Bentley. No matter what I've tried it will not idle, or
> > idles at
> > 2000 to 3500 rpm depending on whether the T2 sensor is connected.
> > >
> > > This happened literally over night after driving the well-running
> > > van
> > 270 miles home. The next day all this appeared.
> > >
> > > I did find a very weak alternator, and the battery was run down to
> > > 25%
> > the next day. It would crank but not start, but started with a jump.
> > Maybe that did in the ECU.
> > >
> > > Something is sending the wrong signals obviously, but this engine is
> > pretty clean, unmodified, and has been professionally serviced its
> > whole life, which has been in the northwest. No cut & spliced wires,
> > cut sheathing, corroded connectors, added equipment, accidents, etc.,
> > so I don’t think it's a wiring problem.
> > >
> > > Just for fun I popped the ECU plug and it looks fine. Situation is
> > > the
> > same plugging it back in. At proverbial wits end. I have the TA
> > version ECU, are they know to be problematic?
> > >
> > > Van Cafe wants $225 for a rebuilt ECU. I'm tempted to order one
> > > right
> > now!
> > >
> > > Stuart
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Dennis Haynes [mailto:d23haynes57@hotmail.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 2:04 PM
> > > To: 'Stuart MacMillan'; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > Subject: RE: Weird idle problem continues
> > >
> > > Is that idle with the stabilizer valve connected? You need both fuel
> > > and
> > air . Again, start by getting it to run/idle with the valve
> > disconnected, maybe even pinch off or block the hoses. Check the
> > voltage at that plug terminal with the sensor connected and
> > disconnected. There must be a difference. If not you have a wiring
> > issue or a bad input on the ECU. If fast idle with idle valve blocked
> > you have a vacuum leak somewhere or the throttle is partly open.
> > >
> > > Dennis
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
> > > Behalf
> > Of Stuart MacMillan
> > > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 4:51 PM
> > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > Subject: Re: Weird idle problem continues
> > >
> > > Checked the T2 sensor, and it's 1500 ohms @ 35 C, right what the
> > > Bentley
> > says it should be. Sensor in AFM is also spot on. That T2 connector
> > is clean as a whistle, contacts inside are not broken or corroded either.
> > >
> > > But remember, it idles at 2000 rpm with it unplugged! Something is
> > dumping fuel in, and it must be a bad ECU unless you can think of
> > something else.
> > >
> > > Stuart
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Dennis Haynes [mailto:d23haynes57@hotmail.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 1:23 PM
> > > To: 'Stuart MacMillan'; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > Subject: RE: Weird idle problem continues
> > >
> > > The ECU thinks the engine is really cold. Try changing the
> > > connector. It
> > is the same as for the injectors except for color. A good auto parts
> > store will have the connector and pigtail wires, maybe the Help or
> > Cal-Term board. GM uses the same connectors.
> > >
> > > Dennis
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
> > > Behalf
> > Of Stuart MacMillan
> > > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 4:20 PM
> > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > Subject: Re: Weird idle problem continues
> > >
> > > I've got 4.9 volts, and 0.02 volts on the connectors. Fuel pressure
> > > is
> > 30 psi and no leaking at the regulator vacuum connection.
> > >
> > > All hooked up and the same situation--hard start, won't idle, 30
> > > seconds
> > later revs up to 3500 rpm and stays there.
> > >
> > > I give up. At least I have a good shop close by.
> > >
> > > Stuart
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Dennis Haynes [mailto:d23haynes57@hotmail.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 1:05 PM
> > > To: 'Stuart MacMillan'; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > Subject: RE: Weird idle problem continues
> > >
> > > High idle and timing defaulted is normal when temps is disconnected
> > after engine running. That is part of the procedure to set the timing.
> > Reconnect the snsor to then set the idle speed.
> > >
> > > Dennis
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Stuart MacMillan [mailto:stuartmacm@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 4:03 PM
> > > To: 'Dennis Haynes'; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > Subject: RE: Weird idle problem continues
> > >
> > > Thanks Dennis, that might actually be cheaper than taking it to a shop!
> > >
> > > I'll go check that now, but it still idles at 2000 rpm with temp 2
> > disconnected.
> > >
> > > Stuart
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Dennis Haynes [mailto:d23haynes57@hotmail.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 12:51 PM
> > > To: 'Stuart MacMillan'; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > Subject: RE: Weird idle problem continues
> > >
> > > Where are you located again? Do you need me to fly there to fix it?
> > > Only
> > kidding.
> > > The hard start and idle problem is probably related. If it is
> > > flooding
> > look at the Temp 2 sensor. The original sensors rarely go bad. What
> > does go bad is the connector and the wiring to it. And then there is
> > the ground connection for it. This sensor is used for both the ECU to
> > control starting mixture, warm up mixture, when to go into O2 sensor
> > operation and some ignition timing trim. It is also used by the idle
> > stabilizer to modify idle speed for starting and warm up operation.
> > There are also inputs for the AC and power steering.
> > >
> > > The temps sensor gets a signal off of the ECU and sinks it to the
> > chassis. As the sensor warms up the resistance goes down increasing
> > current flow which reduces the voltage at the ECU. Any high resistance
> > in this path leaves a high voltage making the ECU and idle control
> > unit think it is like
> > 40 below. Yes it will run rich and if it does run idle high.
> > >
> > > Key on engine not running you can use a voltmeter to test the
> > connections. On the ECU side of the sensor you need to see less than 5
> > volts connected, between the connector and chassis). On the ground
> > side needs to be real close to "0" If you have voltage on both sides
> > or much above "0" on the ground side you have a bad ground path. If 5
> > volts on one side then you have a bad connection to the sensor.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps.
> > >
> > > Dennis
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
> > > Behalf
> > Of Stuart MacMillan
> > > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 3:13 PM
> > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > Subject: Re: Weird idle problem continues
> > >
> > > I would, but son is tapped out for now. Need to get a year or two
> > > out
> > of this one!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Don Hanson [mailto:dhanson928@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 12:05 PM
> > > To: Stuart MacMillan
> > > Cc: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > Subject: Re: Weird idle problem continues
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Give in, Stuart....You know you are wanting a different motor...Do
> > > it
> > now.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 12:02 PM, Stuart MacMillan
> > > <stuartmacm@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Okay,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Today it was very hard to start, much cranking with foot to floor to
> > minimized flooding. Started, barely ran but 30 seconds later runs up
> > to
> > > 3000 rpm and stays there. Warmed it up for a couple of minutes.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Unplugged O2, Temp2, and idle control power plug. Same hard to
> > > start
> > condition, but it went to 2000 and stayed there. Checked the timing
> > and it was a bit advanced but steady, so I adjusted that.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hooked everything back up and still hard starting, but went right up
> > > to
> > 3500 rpm. Gave up.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This is not a problem with the idle control circuit. What's left?
> AFM?
> > > ECU? Other?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > About ready to have it towed to a shop where they can substitute
> > > parts
> > they have lying around, but that would be painful in so many ways.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Stuart
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
|