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Date:         Tue, 18 Nov 2014 01:12:20 -0500
Reply-To:     Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Suspension for Off Roading
Comments: To: Dan N <dn92610@GMAIL.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <CAFdLW6kvdZN_hczXSgmpiMYLeyqRwq2Pr=o6rx=YtqVvZSi_jg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

The 27X8.5 tire is a "floatation" size designation. It is really about 26.5" diameter. If you put one side by side with a 215/70-14 the height is almost identical. Due to the stiff construction of the type of tire the load capacity is different than other tires due to heating. It needs to be at 50 psi to carry 1515 pounds as rated. That is also its maximum inflation pressure. If you have the alloy or 6' steel wheels you can go to a 225/70-14 which gets you to a 98 load index. Very had to find but there are tires up to 225/75-14 or even 205/80-14. The 205/80 would be a load range C or D truck tire.

If going for wheels I would suggest going right for 16" Much more choice of tires with adequate load capacities. 215/65-16 works well for those looking for a tad more height and is still reasonable for the gearing and brakes. As for gear changes and stuff keep in mind the transmission was based off a vehicle much lighter and lower powered. Any change including just larger tires has an adverse effect on transmission life. Lowering engine RPM at a given speed means increased torque and load. That means more stress, heat, and over time broken parts.

Dennis

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Dan N Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 3:15 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Suspension for Off Roading

unless there's another tire that I don't know... but with 27x8.5R14 it's the largest diameter you can have with 14" rim...

next step up would be 215/75R15 - the 215/75R15 here is 27.7x8.5R15 equivalent so you have .7" more for the price 15" rims (x4)

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Eric Wunrow <VW@ericwunrow.com> wrote:

> Thank You. > > My fronts are the 195/75 size, though I do like the 27x8.5 profile > better… partly because I want as much ground clearance as possible > (we've done some pretty wicked roads already, not a problem after 30 > years backroading with street cars!). Going to 16" wheels would help, > but unless I put in more horsepower, it seems prudent to not change > gear ratios and make it harder to pull the bigger wheels. Maybe this isn't as bad as I fear... > > Some have suggested the Too Tall springs, but not sure if that's a > good look with small wheels. Hence my asking all of you, and the help > is greatly appreciated! > > Eric > Eric Wunrow Pictures > 85 S Union Blvd, #Q123 > Lakewood, CO 80228 > > 303. 988. 8717 > VW@EricWunrow.com > > > > > On Nov 17, 2014, at 9:49 AM, mcneely4@cox.net wrote: > > > Eric, not only is a 14" wheel with high profile tires an option, it > > was > original equipment on most Vanagons. On my '91, I currently run 195R14. > That is actually a little taller profile than 80 -- maybe it is 83. > Original equipment was 185R14, which would also be about 83 profile. > This gives maximum sidewall height, and so in driving back country > (quite feasible with the 2WD version of the Vanagon, unless one > encounters deep mud or sand, or very steep going) both the tires and > the rims are less susceptible to damage than either would be with lower profile tires on. > Air is a pretty good cushion. mcneely > > > > ---- Eric Wunrow <VW@ERICWUNROW.COM> wrote: > >> Thanks, Jeff, that certainly makes sense. My comment about wheel > strength was not about tire sidewall height, just wheel height vs. > strength in absorbing the shocks off off-road travel. > >> > >> Am I wrong that a taller wheel can aborb more shock than a shorter > wheel? If so, is a 14" wheel with higher-profile tires an option? > >> > >> Thanks! > >> > >> Eric > >> Eric Wunrow Pictures > >> 85 S Union Blvd, #Q123 > >> Lakewood, CO 80228 > >> > >> 303. 988. 8717 > >> VW@EricWunrow.com > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Nov 16, 2014, at 3:08 PM, Jeff <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM> wrote: > >> > >>> Actually, it works the other way around. After 20+ years of off > >>> road > racing (Baja 500 - 1000, etc.), I can assure you that the higher > profile of the tire helps protect the rim from damage. > >>> > >>> Just look at the rim/tire combinations that are run by serious off > roaders. Off course, they also use bead locks... > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> > >>> Jeff > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On > Behalf Of Eric Wunrow > >>> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2014 1:09 PM > >>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > >>> Subject: Re: Suspension for Off Roading > >>> > >>> Good advice. I have the alloy 14-inchers from VW and do wonder how > tough they are that said, I've hammered them quite a lot and they're > still straight. > >>> > >>> I believe that the larger the wheel is, the more one can punish > >>> them > without failure, and I suspect this is true of the alloys as well. Not

> sure which way I'll go when upping to 16"... > >>> > >>> Eric > >>> Eric Wunrow Pictures > >>> 85 S Union Blvd, #Q123 > >>> Lakewood, CO 80228 > >>> > >>> 303. 988. 8717 > >>> VW@EricWunrow.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Nov 16, 2014, at 8:15 AM, Don Hanson <dhanson928@GMAIL.COM> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Another consideration when working on your off road > suitability....Alloy > >>>> wheels are more prone to damage than steel ones. Alloys will > fracture or > >>>> fail when you hit the rim into a pothole or smoosh a huge boulder

> >>>> with a low air tire....Steelies, if they do get damaged off road,

> >>>> they can be bent back often times....or at least enough to get > >>>> the bead to seat for the tire, enabling you to keep moving. I > >>>> have twice bent steel > rims in Baja > >>>> and broken an alloy aftermarket one. One of the steelies I bent, we > were > >>>> almost 60 miles from pavement and there was nothing around. We > >>>> straightened the rim with a rock and aired it up using our > >>>> bicycle pump, with gasoline and a match to seat the bead....In > >>>> Baja you may sit for days on end until another vehicle comes > >>>> along...often finding an appropriate rim may involve long > >>>> distances to help....I keep my > rims in steel now. > >>>> > >>>> On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 7:43 AM, Dan N <dn92610@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Yes I do deflate the tires when I do off road - usually I take > >>>>> out 10psi and 15psi on sand - in any case I leave a minimum > >>>>> 20psi. As Dennis mentioned there's a risk of damage to tires > >>>>> specially on the side wall if the road has a lot sharp rocks > >>>>> such as the one from Ubehe Crater to the Race Track in Death > >>>>> Valley. I always carry a 12V > air pump, off road or not. > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 7:26 AM, Dennis Haynes > >>>>> <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Off roaders will air down the tires to improve traction and > >>>>>> reduce > >>>>> sinking > >>>>>> on soft dirt, mud, and sand. As the pressure is lowered the > >>>>>> contact patch increases. They will often air down low enough > >>>>>> that the sidewalls can > >>>>> also > >>>>>> provide a floatation effect, 12-16psi is common. The down side > >>>>>> of this is an increased chance of rolling the bead off the rim > >>>>>> and having a tire completely air out and hitting any type of > >>>>>> sharp object can damage a tire internally. Note this approach > >>>>>> is for low > speed operation. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> You didn't say what tire you are using, size or type, If using > >>>>>> a regular passenger tire you reach full capacity at ~35 psi. > >>>>>> Above that you are > >>>>> going > >>>>>> for handling or reduced rolling resistance. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Dennis > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] > >>>>>> On Behalf Of Stan Shapiro > >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2014 10:14 AM > >>>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > >>>>>> Subject: Re: Suspension for Off Roading > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Another question on suspension. I have a 90 Westy, 16 in wheels, > >>>>>> Michelin tires, and Bilstein shocks from GoWesty. It is terrible > on > >>>>>> washboard roads. I notice the 4 wheelers let air out of their > tires > >>>>>> before going off road. Does anyone have any experience in > letting a > >>>>>> small amount of air out for a washboard road?? If so, how much > do you > >>>>>> let out? Do you carry a 12 volt compressor to refill? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks > >>>>>> Stan > >>>>>> Idaho > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] > >>>>>> On Behalf Of Chris S. > >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2014 2:58 PM > >>>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > >>>>>> Subject: Re: Suspension for Off Roading > >>>>>> > >>>>>> See Burley Motorsports' custom upper control arms that > >>>>>> eliminate the finicky bushings. Also, for a good off road ride > >>>>>> you may consider progressive long travel springs. I have > >>>>>> Schwenk springs on my Syncro and they are wonderful. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Chris. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Wyslane z iPhone'a > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Dnia Nov 15, 2014 o godz. 14:47 Eric Wunrow <VW@ERICWUNROW.COM> > >>>>>> napisal(a): > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hello: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I thought about posting this on the Samba but you all seem a > >>>>>>> bit more > >>>>>> civil and helpful. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> We are traveling full-time in a 1984 Westy we bought just > >>>>>>> months before > >>>>>> leaving, and are about to end Month 16. Challenging, yes and > >>>>>> perhaps > >>>>> equal > >>>>>> parts commendable and committable. But we are in for the long haul. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I have had four alignments done in 12K miles. At first I > >>>>>>> thought the > >>>>>> mechanics weren't torquing the right upper control arm enough, > >>>>>> as it > >>>>> keeps > >>>>>> coming loose and knocking toe way out last time it was over AN

> >>>>>> INCH out, and now a few hundred miles later, it's out again and

> >>>>>> baking our new BFG ATs. Ugh. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The easiest solution seems to be replacing the control arm > >>>>>>> bolts, as I > >>>>>> do not think Loctite will solve it in the proper way. But, if > >>>>>> the arms > >>>>> need > >>>>>> to come off anyway, and possibly new bushings are needed as > >>>>>> well, what > >>>>> are > >>>>>> my options for upgrading the suspension for constant dirt > >>>>>> travel? I saw a gray panel Synchro at Buses by the Bridge in > >>>>>> January with Fox shocks and > >>>>> it > >>>>>> looked like a great solution. I am willing to trade highway > >>>>>> comfort for > >>>>> off > >>>>>> road softness before parts start flying off at will. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> We hope to keep our Bus forever, and though we are short of > >>>>>>> funds I do > >>>>>> not necessarily want a quick fix. We have to rely on this Thing

> >>>>>> (Ahem, sorry, Bus) for a long time and may take it around the globe. > >>>>>> So > >>>>> anything I > >>>>>> can do for the long-term good is of prime interest, and getting

> >>>>>> to remote places is partly why we live in it. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Also, if you know of anyone in So. Cal. or near Yuma capable > >>>>>>> of this > >>>>>> work (where we're wintering), I'm all ears. I found a > >>>>>> cooperative tire store owner in Pahrump who owns a few > >>>>>> Vanagons, but have yet to ask if > >>>>> such > >>>>>> an upgrade is within his realm. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thanks in Advance, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Eric > >>>>>>> Eric Wunrow Pictures > >>>>>>> 85 S Union Blvd, #Q123 > >>>>>>> Lakewood, CO 80228 > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> 303. 988. 8717 > >>>>>>> VW@EricWunrow.com > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > > > > -- > > David McNeely > > > > > > >


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