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Date:         Sun, 16 Nov 2014 11:49:07 -0500
Reply-To:     Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Suspension for Off Roading Steel vs. alloy wheels
Comments: To: Don Hanson <dhanson928@GMAIL.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Part of what you say is true. A good forged aluminum wheel will put up quite a fight and bend long before breaking. They too can be repaired. The main problem is aftermarket junk and wheels that are wrong for the application. Going off road presents many challenges for wheels and tires but so do poor road common in the northeast during and after winter. We will often hit potholes and the like that can easily be a 2" to 4" drop or worse. As bad as a wheel failure can be I would rather lose a tire and wheel than have part of the suspension ripped off.

If really traveling off road and going to the point of airing down the tires that you have to plan on frequent tire and/or wheel replacements. Anytime one goes off road especially after running low tire pressure planned maintenance should include removing and inspecting the inside of the tires for damage. Any new loses of air pressure or new bubbles on the outside are indication the tire is damaged.

Dennis

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Don Hanson Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2014 11:16 AM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Suspension for Off Roading

Another consideration when working on your off road suitability....Alloy wheels are more prone to damage than steel ones. Alloys will fracture or fail when you hit the rim into a pothole or smoosh a huge boulder with a low air tire....Steelies, if they do get damaged off road, they can be bent back often times....or at least enough to get the bead to seat for the tire, enabling you to keep moving. I have twice bent steel rims in Baja and broken an alloy aftermarket one. One of the steelies I bent, we were almost 60 miles from pavement and there was nothing around. We straightened the rim with a rock and aired it up using our bicycle pump, with gasoline and a match to seat the bead....In Baja you may sit for days on end until another vehicle comes along...often finding an appropriate rim may involve long distances to help....I keep my rims in steel now.

On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 7:43 AM, Dan N <dn92610@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes I do deflate the tires when I do off road - usually I take out > 10psi and 15psi on sand - in any case I leave a minimum 20psi. As > Dennis mentioned there's a risk of damage to tires specially on the > side wall if the road has a lot sharp rocks such as the one from Ubehe

> Crater to the Race Track in Death Valley. I always carry a 12V air pump, off road or not. > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 7:26 AM, Dennis Haynes > <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> > wrote: > > > Off roaders will air down the tires to improve traction and reduce > sinking > > on soft dirt, mud, and sand. As the pressure is lowered the contact > > patch increases. They will often air down low enough that the > > sidewalls can > also > > provide a floatation effect, 12-16psi is common. The down side of > > this is an increased chance of rolling the bead off the rim and > > having a tire completely air out and hitting any type of sharp > > object can damage a tire internally. Note this approach is for low speed operation. > > > > You didn't say what tire you are using, size or type, If using a > > regular passenger tire you reach full capacity at ~35 psi. Above > > that you are > going > > for handling or reduced rolling resistance. > > > > Dennis > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On > > Behalf Of Stan Shapiro > > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2014 10:14 AM > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > > Subject: Re: Suspension for Off Roading > > > > Another question on suspension. I have a 90 Westy, 16 in wheels, > > Michelin tires, and Bilstein shocks from GoWesty. It is terrible on > > washboard roads. I notice the 4 wheelers let air out of their tires > > before going off road. Does anyone have any experience in letting a > > small amount of air out for a washboard road?? If so, how much do you > > let out? Do you carry a 12 volt compressor to refill? > > > > Thanks > > Stan > > Idaho > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On > > Behalf Of Chris S. > > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2014 2:58 PM > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > > Subject: Re: Suspension for Off Roading > > > > See Burley Motorsports' custom upper control arms that eliminate the

> > finicky bushings. Also, for a good off road ride you may consider > > progressive long travel springs. I have Schwenk springs on my Syncro

> > and they are wonderful. > > > > Chris. > > > > Wysłane z iPhone'a > > > > Dnia Nov 15, 2014 o godz. 14:47 Eric Wunrow <VW@ERICWUNROW.COM> > > napisał(a): > > > > > Hello: > > > > > > > > > I thought about posting this on the Samba but you all seem a bit > > > more > > civil… and helpful. > > > > > > > > > We are traveling full-time in a 1984 Westy we bought just months > > > before > > leaving, and are about to end Month 16. Challenging, yes… and > > perhaps > equal > > parts commendable and committable. But we are in for the long haul. > > > > > > I have had four alignments done in 12K miles. At first I thought > > > the > > mechanics weren't torquing the right upper control arm enough, as it > keeps > > coming loose and knocking toe way out… last time it was over AN INCH > > out, and now a few hundred miles later, it's out again and baking > > our new BFG ATs. Ugh. > > > > > > The easiest solution seems to be replacing the control arm bolts, > > > as I > > do not think Loctite will solve it in the proper way. But, if the > > arms > need > > to come off anyway, and possibly new bushings are needed as well, > > what > are > > my options for upgrading the suspension for constant dirt travel? I > > saw a gray panel Synchro at Buses by the Bridge in January with Fox > > shocks and > it > > looked like a great solution. I am willing to trade highway comfort > > for > off > > road softness before parts start flying off at will. > > > > > > We hope to keep our Bus forever, and though we are short of funds > > > I do > > not necessarily want a quick fix. We have to rely on this Thing > > (Ahem, sorry, Bus) for a long time and may take it around the globe.

> > So > anything I > > can do for the long-term good is of prime interest, and getting to > > remote places is partly why we live in it. > > > > > > Also, if you know of anyone in So. Cal. or near Yuma capable of > > > this > > work (where we're wintering), I'm all ears. I found a cooperative > > tire store owner in Pahrump who owns a few Vanagons, but have yet to

> > ask if > such > > an upgrade is within his realm. > > > > > > > > > Thanks in Advance, > > > > > > Eric > > > Eric Wunrow Pictures > > > 85 S Union Blvd, #Q123 > > > Lakewood, CO 80228 > > > > > > 303. 988. 8717 > > > VW@EricWunrow.com > > >


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