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Date:         Sun, 16 Nov 2014 09:33:15 -0800
Reply-To:     Don Hanson <dhanson928@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Don Hanson <dhanson928@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Suspension for Off Roading
Comments: To: Brett Ne <brettn777@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To:  <CAPAEXFeUu=3-MMjq6g8-7mauq7AzR2jEt7oOvnCy2RcsmjtgNA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I learned the trick from the Mexicans in Baja...in remote "Llanteras"...tire "shops"....often a side-room off a family dwelling with a palm thatch roof and no electricity. Tire changing done with irons and hammers.

Getting the bead to seat and the tire to begin taking air without a fancy tire machine and all the stuff used by modern places.... I was dealing with a larger truck tire from my diesel pick up truck...hard enough to air up with tools, but I had seen the guys in Baja seating the tire beads on big semi trucks and bus tires this way also...so I did it..first time it worked fine...

You pour about a shot glass of gasoline inside the tire after it is mounted for taking air. Often the little primitive Llanteras don't have high-flow unlimited compressed air...sometimes they even use hand pumps....so pushing and pulling the tire and rim as you attempt to fill it...that is not often possible...In my case, filling my pickup tire with a bicycle pump took me about 2 Coronas... Anyway....you pour the gas inside the tire and roll the tire/rim around to get the gas/air mxture in the tire just right....then you toss a kitchen match at it and jump back...The gas in the tire explodes and forces the bead to seat on the rim.....just like magic, it works! I've spent time in Baja tire shops and watched them do this as their normal daily way of saving some time....You don't need no steenkin' windlass or inflatable belt around the tread....Just a quick shot of Pemex in the tire and "Poof!"....you can put the air in, pronto! Amaze your friends and customers...look real macho..

On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Brett Ne <brettn777@gmail.com> wrote:

> Please elaborate on your match/gasoline trick for seating the bead. > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 8:15 AM, Don Hanson <dhanson928@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Another consideration when working on your off road > suitability....Alloy > > wheels are more prone to damage than steel ones. Alloys will fracture > or > > fail when you hit the rim into a pothole or smoosh a huge boulder with a > > low air tire....Steelies, if they do get damaged off road, they can be > bent > > back often times....or at least enough to get the bead to seat for the > > tire, enabling you to keep moving. I have twice bent steel rims in Baja > > and broken an alloy aftermarket one. One of the steelies I bent, we > were > > almost 60 miles from pavement and there was nothing around. We > > straightened the rim with a rock and aired it up using our bicycle pump, > > with gasoline and a match to seat the bead....In Baja you may sit for > days > > on end until another vehicle comes along...often finding an appropriate > rim > > may involve long distances to help....I keep my rims in steel now. > > > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 7:43 AM, Dan N <dn92610@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Yes I do deflate the tires when I do off road - usually I take out > 10psi > > > and 15psi on sand - in any case I leave a minimum 20psi. As Dennis > > > mentioned there's a risk of damage to tires specially on the side wall > if > > > the road has a lot sharp rocks such as the one from Ubehe Crater to the > > > Race Track in Death Valley. I always carry a 12V air pump, off road or > > not. > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 7:26 AM, Dennis Haynes < > d23haynes57@hotmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Off roaders will air down the tires to improve traction and reduce > > > sinking > > > > on soft dirt, mud, and sand. As the pressure is lowered the contact > > patch > > > > increases. They will often air down low enough that the sidewalls can > > > also > > > > provide a floatation effect, 12-16psi is common. The down side of > this > > is > > > > an increased chance of rolling the bead off the rim and having a tire > > > > completely air out and hitting any type of sharp object can damage a > > tire > > > > internally. Note this approach is for low speed operation. > > > > > > > > You didn't say what tire you are using, size or type, If using a > > regular > > > > passenger tire you reach full capacity at ~35 psi. Above that you are > > > going > > > > for handling or reduced rolling resistance. > > > > > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On > > Behalf > > > > Of Stan Shapiro > > > > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2014 10:14 AM > > > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > > > > Subject: Re: Suspension for Off Roading > > > > > > > > Another question on suspension. I have a 90 Westy, 16 in wheels, > > > > Michelin tires, and Bilstein shocks from GoWesty. It is terrible > on > > > > washboard roads. I notice the 4 wheelers let air out of their > tires > > > > before going off road. Does anyone have any experience in letting > a > > > > small amount of air out for a washboard road?? If so, how much do > > you > > > > let out? Do you carry a 12 volt compressor to refill? > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Stan > > > > Idaho > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On > > Behalf > > > > Of Chris S. > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2014 2:58 PM > > > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > > > > Subject: Re: Suspension for Off Roading > > > > > > > > See Burley Motorsports' custom upper control arms that eliminate the > > > > finicky bushings. Also, for a good off road ride you may consider > > > > progressive long travel springs. I have Schwenk springs on my Syncro > > and > > > > they are wonderful. > > > > > > > > Chris. > > > > > > > > Wysłane z iPhone'a > > > > > > > > Dnia Nov 15, 2014 o godz. 14:47 Eric Wunrow <VW@ERICWUNROW.COM> > > > > napisał(a): > > > > > > > > > Hello: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought about posting this on the Samba but you all seem a bit > more > > > > civil… and helpful. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are traveling full-time in a 1984 Westy we bought just months > > before > > > > leaving, and are about to end Month 16. Challenging, yes… and perhaps > > > equal > > > > parts commendable and committable. But we are in for the long haul. > > > > > > > > > > I have had four alignments done in 12K miles. At first I thought > the > > > > mechanics weren't torquing the right upper control arm enough, as it > > > keeps > > > > coming loose and knocking toe way out… last time it was over AN INCH > > out, > > > > and now a few hundred miles later, it's out again and baking our new > > BFG > > > > ATs. Ugh. > > > > > > > > > > The easiest solution seems to be replacing the control arm bolts, > as > > I > > > > do not think Loctite will solve it in the proper way. But, if the > arms > > > need > > > > to come off anyway, and possibly new bushings are needed as well, > what > > > are > > > > my options for upgrading the suspension for constant dirt travel? I > > saw a > > > > gray panel Synchro at Buses by the Bridge in January with Fox shocks > > and > > > it > > > > looked like a great solution. I am willing to trade highway comfort > for > > > off > > > > road softness before parts start flying off at will. > > > > > > > > > > We hope to keep our Bus forever, and though we are short of funds I > > do > > > > not necessarily want a quick fix. We have to rely on this Thing > (Ahem, > > > > sorry, Bus) for a long time and may take it around the globe. So > > > anything I > > > > can do for the long-term good is of prime interest, and getting to > > remote > > > > places is partly why we live in it. > > > > > > > > > > Also, if you know of anyone in So. Cal. or near Yuma capable of > this > > > > work (where we're wintering), I'm all ears. I found a cooperative > tire > > > > store owner in Pahrump who owns a few Vanagons, but have yet to ask > if > > > such > > > > an upgrade is within his realm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks in Advance, > > > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > Eric Wunrow Pictures > > > > > 85 S Union Blvd, #Q123 > > > > > Lakewood, CO 80228 > > > > > > > > > > 303. 988. 8717 > > > > > VW@EricWunrow.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Brett in Portland, OR > "Albert" '82 VanaFox I4 Riviera >


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