Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 07:46:27 -0800
Reply-To: Eric Wunrow <VW@ERICWUNROW.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Eric Wunrow <VW@ERICWUNROW.COM>
Subject: Re: Suspension for Off Roading
In-Reply-To: <54692e55.68a4420a.1a3c.1eb2@mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Thanks, Jeff, that certainly makes sense. My comment about wheel strength was not about tire sidewall height, just wheel height vs. strength in absorbing the shocks off off-road travel.
Am I wrong that a taller wheel can aborb more shock than a shorter wheel? If so, is a 14" wheel with higher-profile tires an option?
Thanks!
Eric
Eric Wunrow Pictures
85 S Union Blvd, #Q123
Lakewood, CO 80228
303. 988. 8717
VW@EricWunrow.com
On Nov 16, 2014, at 3:08 PM, Jeff <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> Actually, it works the other way around. After 20+ years of off road racing (Baja 500 - 1000, etc.), I can assure you that the higher profile of the tire helps protect the rim from damage.
>
> Just look at the rim/tire combinations that are run by serious off roaders. Off course, they also use bead locks...
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Eric Wunrow
> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2014 1:09 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Suspension for Off Roading
>
> Good advice. I have the alloy 14-inchers from VW and do wonder how tough they are that said, I've hammered them quite a lot and they're still straight.
>
> I believe that the larger the wheel is, the more one can punish them without failure, and I suspect this is true of the alloys as well. Not sure which way I'll go when upping to 16"...
>
> Eric
> Eric Wunrow Pictures
> 85 S Union Blvd, #Q123
> Lakewood, CO 80228
>
> 303. 988. 8717
> VW@EricWunrow.com
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 16, 2014, at 8:15 AM, Don Hanson <dhanson928@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
>> Another consideration when working on your off road suitability....Alloy
>> wheels are more prone to damage than steel ones. Alloys will fracture or
>> fail when you hit the rim into a pothole or smoosh a huge boulder with
>> a low air tire....Steelies, if they do get damaged off road, they can
>> be bent back often times....or at least enough to get the bead to seat
>> for the tire, enabling you to keep moving. I have twice bent steel rims in Baja
>> and broken an alloy aftermarket one. One of the steelies I bent, we were
>> almost 60 miles from pavement and there was nothing around. We
>> straightened the rim with a rock and aired it up using our bicycle
>> pump, with gasoline and a match to seat the bead....In Baja you may
>> sit for days on end until another vehicle comes along...often finding
>> an appropriate rim may involve long distances to help....I keep my rims in steel now.
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 7:43 AM, Dan N <dn92610@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes I do deflate the tires when I do off road - usually I take out
>>> 10psi and 15psi on sand - in any case I leave a minimum 20psi. As
>>> Dennis mentioned there's a risk of damage to tires specially on the
>>> side wall if the road has a lot sharp rocks such as the one from
>>> Ubehe Crater to the Race Track in Death Valley. I always carry a 12V air pump, off road or not.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 7:26 AM, Dennis Haynes
>>> <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Off roaders will air down the tires to improve traction and reduce
>>> sinking
>>>> on soft dirt, mud, and sand. As the pressure is lowered the contact
>>>> patch increases. They will often air down low enough that the
>>>> sidewalls can
>>> also
>>>> provide a floatation effect, 12-16psi is common. The down side of
>>>> this is an increased chance of rolling the bead off the rim and
>>>> having a tire completely air out and hitting any type of sharp
>>>> object can damage a tire internally. Note this approach is for low speed operation.
>>>>
>>>> You didn't say what tire you are using, size or type, If using a
>>>> regular passenger tire you reach full capacity at ~35 psi. Above
>>>> that you are
>>> going
>>>> for handling or reduced rolling resistance.
>>>>
>>>> Dennis
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>>>> Behalf Of Stan Shapiro
>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2014 10:14 AM
>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>> Subject: Re: Suspension for Off Roading
>>>>
>>>> Another question on suspension. I have a 90 Westy, 16 in wheels,
>>>> Michelin tires, and Bilstein shocks from GoWesty. It is terrible on
>>>> washboard roads. I notice the 4 wheelers let air out of their tires
>>>> before going off road. Does anyone have any experience in letting a
>>>> small amount of air out for a washboard road?? If so, how much do you
>>>> let out? Do you carry a 12 volt compressor to refill?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Stan
>>>> Idaho
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>>>> Behalf Of Chris S.
>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2014 2:58 PM
>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>> Subject: Re: Suspension for Off Roading
>>>>
>>>> See Burley Motorsports' custom upper control arms that eliminate the
>>>> finicky bushings. Also, for a good off road ride you may consider
>>>> progressive long travel springs. I have Schwenk springs on my Syncro
>>>> and they are wonderful.
>>>>
>>>> Chris.
>>>>
>>>> Wyslane z iPhone'a
>>>>
>>>> Dnia Nov 15, 2014 o godz. 14:47 Eric Wunrow <VW@ERICWUNROW.COM>
>>>> napisal(a):
>>>>
>>>>> Hello:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought about posting this on the Samba but you all seem a bit
>>>>> more
>>>> civil and helpful.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We are traveling full-time in a 1984 Westy we bought just months
>>>>> before
>>>> leaving, and are about to end Month 16. Challenging, yes and
>>>> perhaps
>>> equal
>>>> parts commendable and committable. But we are in for the long haul.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have had four alignments done in 12K miles. At first I thought
>>>>> the
>>>> mechanics weren't torquing the right upper control arm enough, as it
>>> keeps
>>>> coming loose and knocking toe way out last time it was over AN INCH
>>>> out, and now a few hundred miles later, it's out again and baking
>>>> our new BFG ATs. Ugh.
>>>>>
>>>>> The easiest solution seems to be replacing the control arm bolts,
>>>>> as I
>>>> do not think Loctite will solve it in the proper way. But, if the
>>>> arms
>>> need
>>>> to come off anyway, and possibly new bushings are needed as well,
>>>> what
>>> are
>>>> my options for upgrading the suspension for constant dirt travel? I
>>>> saw a gray panel Synchro at Buses by the Bridge in January with Fox
>>>> shocks and
>>> it
>>>> looked like a great solution. I am willing to trade highway comfort
>>>> for
>>> off
>>>> road softness before parts start flying off at will.
>>>>>
>>>>> We hope to keep our Bus forever, and though we are short of funds I
>>>>> do
>>>> not necessarily want a quick fix. We have to rely on this Thing
>>>> (Ahem, sorry, Bus) for a long time and may take it around the globe.
>>>> So
>>> anything I
>>>> can do for the long-term good is of prime interest, and getting to
>>>> remote places is partly why we live in it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, if you know of anyone in So. Cal. or near Yuma capable of
>>>>> this
>>>> work (where we're wintering), I'm all ears. I found a cooperative
>>>> tire store owner in Pahrump who owns a few Vanagons, but have yet to
>>>> ask if
>>> such
>>>> an upgrade is within his realm.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in Advance,
>>>>>
>>>>> Eric
>>>>> Eric Wunrow Pictures
>>>>> 85 S Union Blvd, #Q123
>>>>> Lakewood, CO 80228
>>>>>
>>>>> 303. 988. 8717
>>>>> VW@EricWunrow.com
>>>>
>>>
>>
>