Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2014 10:29:01 -0800
Reply-To: Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Auto back up switch
In-Reply-To: <D49C6474-EE56-42F9-B938-20BE0EFAD180@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
And, add these while you are in there:
http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details.php?id=23493&category_id=24136&catego
ry_parent_id= I have the blue, and they are great.
Stuart
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Stacy Schneider
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2014 9:45 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Auto back up switch
Where is the back up switch on an automatic transmission ?
Stacy
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 23, 2014, at 10:27 AM, Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> I have this Jay Brown Hard Start Relay setup. I can't tell you how
> well done it the kit is and how well it works. Solved my starter
> problems. If you have a westy, be sure to do the final little step in
> the instructions that involves the under-seat relay. It's all easy-peasy.
>
> Also, somewhere I copied down a bit of advice I saw on this list about
> using the Jay Brown relay setup as a remote starter. Another reason to
> get one.
>
> Jim
>
> On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Stuart MacMillan
> <stuartmacm@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Here is a nice relay setup:
>> http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1119534 (Won't
>> work with an automatic with factory cruise control for some reason
>> though.)
>>
>> Stuart
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>> Behalf Of David Beierl
>> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 9:46 PM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: Trying to understand starter stuff
>>
>> At 11:03 PM 12/22/2014, Marc Perdue wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>
>> Excellent! I now have three verified cases of a starter control lead
>> coming off without causing a hard start failure: your Van, my '89
>> 2.1l, and my
>> '71
>> Fiat 128. I solved that one after running out of gas in an uphill
>> line to buy gas somwehere in upstate New York, when it became clear
>> that the motor would crank if it were torqued slightly sideways.
>>
>> Starters have some challenging necessities. They have to have big
>> cables direct to the battery; a heavy switch that can switch them on
>> and off under load without burning up quickly; a means of engaging
>> the pinion into the flywheel ring gear; and a positive means of
>> disengaging it when the motor starts, so the starter doesn't burst from
overspeed.
>>
>> Back when the world was new the electrical switching was done by a
>> heavy-duty relay that would today be called a contactor but was
>> commonly known as a solenoid. It was mounted somewhere between
>> battery and starter, and a light wire from the starter button or key
switch used to activate it.
>> For testing you could use a screwdriver to jumper between the big
>> battery cable connection and the control terminal. Starter
>> "solenoids" were a commonly available FLAPS part and no doubt still
>> are; as they regularly failed in use. Last one I bought cost three
>> or four dollars. Excellent for switching a couple hundred amps DC
>> but not rated for continuous duty.
>> They're meant for starting cars, once per trip segment, plenty of
>> time to cool in between.
>>
>> Engaging and disengaging the pinion was accomplished by a clever
>> invention called a Bendix drive. The pinion was mounted on the
>> starter shaft and engaged a pair of helical slots in the shaft. It
>> was kept wound down to the bottoms of the slots by a light spring
>> that pressed it away from the end of the shaft. When you hit the
>> button, the shaft would spin violently and hurl the pinion into
>> engagement during the first few revolutions. And when the motor
>> started, the ring gear would spin the pinion back down the track out
>> of engagement. It worked a treat, so long as you kept it clean and
>> not gucked up with oik or grease. The Bendix Corporation waxed fat and
happy.
>>
>> Came the day that someone thought it would be better to combine actions.
>> If
>> the contactor were mounted on the starter it would simplify wiring,
>> and it could be used as a real solenoid, to physically throw the
>> pinion into engagement as well. Or rather a solenoid could be thus
>> used, and with some contacts added could perform the contactor
>> function as well. An overrunning clutch would handle decoupling the
>> starter from the engine, leaving the pinion in engagement but not
>> forcing the starter to keep up with it. Full disengagement would
>> happen when the key was released. Over a decade or two this method
>> largely took over for starting cars, and that's how Bosch did it on
>> our starters.
>>
>> The big cable goes direct from battery to starter, where it meets the
>> thinner wire from the alternator that supplies charge. That
>> connection is subject to corrosion. The ground connection through
>> the starter, bell housing, transmission ground strap may be
>> defective. The solenoid itself wears and gets crudded up; you have
>> to take the starter apart to clean it up. Non-A/T versions of this
>> starter have no bearing at the pinion end; the shaft inserts into a
>> sleeve bearing that's in turn inserted into the bell housing of the
>> engine. That wears and needs renewal. And the solenoid gets its
>> operating power not from that fat cable but from battery to panel to
>> ignition switch and back to the starter. It only needs two or three
>> amps, but it's a long trip. It's easy to see if a relay could help
>> it -- just jumper the alternator B+ post to the starter control
>> terminal. You can reach it by reaching your hand over the top of the
>> bell housing, quite a way forward and then to the right. There's
>> probably a spare terminal to latch on to. If it cranks snappily that
>> way and listlessly by the key, add a relay. If it makes no
>> difference, neither will the relay.
>>
>> Yours,
>> David
>>
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