Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 14:26:00 -0500
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Can 240 volts damage the fridge?
In-Reply-To: <CAF9Ro-Zz0pSCMygHT3VzRq-0MCXYoBtxGaThsC7EQodn1+j4zg@mail.gmail.com>
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A 3 phase building losing a leg can be a very bad event. Motors especially don’t like it. Proper systems will have fuse coordination so downstream issues do not blow the supply fuses. It is more likely the incoming fuse failed first and the AC compressors then trying to run with the single phase that failed along with the equipment fuses. For equipment that matters I believe is phase loss detectors to shut stuff down before things burn out.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Vincent Dow
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2015 2:11 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Can 240 volts damage the fridge?
Dennis!
I had the weirdest thing happen on a 3/phase/208
This was a simple theatre in which I built partitions in Montreal. I re-ran a ton of BX circuits that had been previously hidden by a drop ceiling (they looked very crappy)
One night I get a bunch of text messages from the theatre director. They'd heard a loud BOOM, and then lights started going out (during a show!!!) Some lights were flashing on-and-off. Certain wall switches were functioning, but had begun controlling the wrong lights!!! Imagine my horrible feelings. I've done a lot of electrical work, but I'm not schooled.
Reading voltages in the load center- getting 52 volts to ground. Weird.
Turned out, the HVAC unit up on the roof had blown a fuse (from lack of
maintenance) and that caused a 600V/40 amp fuse to blow at the building's service entrance. The safety switch fuses were all good on my floor, so I was going nuts, trying to figure what terrible thing I had done. All this time the theatre directors were wishing they'd never hired me, and I was wishing I'd never picked up a pair of pliers.
So, a three phase/600V service, when it loses one leg, the neighboring leg splits itself to it. Hence 52 Volts to ground at the panel. When I began working on the place, i ignored the heavy transformer bolted to the floor in front of the circuit panel. I'll never ignore one of those again. In Quebec, all the newer commercial construction gets a 600V service, and the building owner supplies the step-down transformer. The wires going into the transformer are small 3 X # 6awg) , the wires coming out are 4/0)
live and learn. My reputation was restored with those guys. But I advise everyone to stay away from stuff they don't know now.
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 1:42 PM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Yep weird things do happen. Commercial installations can be a lot more
> complicated. For beginners most will have three phase power. Three hot
> legs and then the grounded conductors. For 208 services you get 208
> between any two legs and 120 between one hot and the neutral. For
> smaller 3 phase services it is common for the service to of a type known as a "high leg".
> With this set up one of the legs will be 220 volt to the neutral. So
> as branch circuits get connected if the wrong slot is picked for the
> single pole breaker you will have 220 volts. For a home service it is
> possible for the neutral to be open effectively putting some circuits
> in series and under certain conditions you could get excessively high voltage to one side.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
> Behalf Of Edward Maglott
> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2015 12:41 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Can 240 volts damage the fridge?
>
> weird things can happen. Especially if it's an old premises and has
> undergone multiple modifications over the years by various "electricians."
> The technician coming along now may do something correctly but
> combined with an issue elsewhere in the circuit cause something bad to happen?
> Maybe? I got called to an office at work because the computers had
> shut down. There was an electric stapler making a funny sound and it was hot.
> I unplugged it and checked the regular 110 outlet and yep it was
> getting 220. Numerous devices were destroyed. Also once in an old
> house I fount myself getting a shock when I had one hand on the power
> supply of a computer an the other hand touched a heat register. I
> traced that problem with great difficulty to an old outlet on the
> circuit where the ceramic stuff had broken down and caused a
> connection that wasn't supposed to happen. Can't remember exactly
> what it was but I guess it must have been hot to ground?
>
> On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 12:18 PM, Roy Nicholl <RNicholl@nbnet.nb.ca>
> wrote:
>
> > Dave,
> >
> > Electrical breakers are driven by current, not voltage. An over
> voltage,
> > by itself, will not trip the breaker. In the example given below it is
> > most probable something downstream would have shorted-out first,
> > causing the draw to spike and trip the breaker.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 17-Jan-2015, at 12:45, Dave Mcneely wrote:
> >
> > > This is a bit confusing. The power cord to plug the shore power
> > > to an
> > outlet will only fit 110 V A.C. outlets. It could not be plugged to
> > a
> > 220-240 V outlet unless there was a 110-120 V type outlet wired to
> > the
> > 240 V wiring. In that case, I would expect the breaker in the van
> > to trip as the internal van wiring heated up. I would check the
> > breaker, reset it if it is tripped, and then try the refrigerator on
> > 110-120 V circuit. mcneely
> > >
> > > ---- OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET> wrote:
> > >> Wouldn't your ShorePower have been plugged into a 110
> > >> Outlet ~
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 16 Jan , 2015, at 4:26 PM, thewestyman wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> The reason why I ask this is because while I was away, the guys
> > >>> wired
> > my workshop to 240 and a lot of items got fried. But I’m not sure
> > about the van’s fridge because they use the same ones in Europe with
> > 240
> volts.
> > Only my fridge don’t seem to want to restart on 120.
> > >>> Anyone knows anything about this?
> > >>> Zoltan
> > >
> > > --
> > > David McNeely
> >
>
