Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2015 12:13:22 -0700
Reply-To: Keith Hughes <keithahughes@YAHOO.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Keith Hughes <keithahughes@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: 2.1 L WBX Overheat -1991 Carat
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Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2015 12:16:15 -0400
From: The Bus Depot <vanagon@BUSDEPOT.COM>
Subject: Re: 2.1 L WBX Overheat -1991 Carat
So let me try to adequately explain it, at least from my
point of view. I have never gotten less than 200k miles on a stock engine,
with 1 or at most 2 head gasket replacements in between. Besides the
periodic hose failure, water pump failure, etc. that can happen with any
30 year old vehicle, the engines have been generally reliable even if a
bit anemic power-wise. I have no issue with the power as I am fully
comfortable with the fact that I am driving a barn on wheels, not to
mention that the rest of the Vanagon's handling is well matched for the
stock engine. If I want to hotrod around I drive my Mini Cooper, not my
Vanagon. (And besides, it's all relative. I also have two 2-cylinder cars,
a 1970 Fiat 500 and a 1973 Citroen 2CV. After driving either of them, my
Westy feels positively zippy!)
So, given that I have no particular desire to exceed stock
performance, let's figure out what that will cost me over the life of the
Vanagon. Over 400k miles I will have to replace the engine once and
maybe do head gaskets 3-4 times. That's about $2k for the replacement
engine and maybe another $2k for the heads gasket jobs assuming I have them
done professionally. So $4k for 400k miles, which is likely the
life of the vehicle - or about one cent per mile. At an average annual
mileage of 12k a year (actually mine gets far less than that since it
is no longer my daily driver and is mothballed for the winter), that
means that this $4k engine investment would last me about 33 years and cost
me $120/year. What would a Subaru conversion cost?
I would not claim that the stock engine is anything beyond
adequate for the vehicle. But it is adequate, and sufficient for my
needs. When my engine goes I'll replace it with another of the same.
Ron Salmon
The Bus Depot, Inc.
www.busdepot.com
Well, Ron, I bought my '86 Westy with 95K on it, and fresh heads from the stealership. I drove it another 100K without engine mechanical failures *except* that I could no longer keep it from overheating with A/C on, or without A/C on long climbs up out of the hot desert I live in. That's after over a grand into WP, hoses, radiators, radiator fan, etc. So clearly it was time for a rebuild or conversion. I opted for the Tiico conversion, and while its foibles are legion (especially the earlly ones, like mine), it has never overheated, has more power than my admittedly tired WBX, but importantly, gets 20mpg on the highway, loaded, versus 16-17mpg for the WBX. The mileage delta is more pronounced on back roads, where the Tiico gets more like 22-23mpg. This is *not* and endorsement or recommendation for the Tiico - and they no longer exist either - but it's taken me 55K with no mechanical failures except exhaust. Buzzy, noisy, absolutely.
But to use your 400K mile example, the big cost differential is in the gasoline, not the engine maintenance or replacement costs. At a current $3.30/gallon price, 400K miles on my WBX would use 25K gallons of gas, for a cost of $82,500, versus the Tiico using 20K gallons, for a savings of $16,500 over that period. That is significant in my book. The FAS GenV Drive By Wire conversion I'm getting done this summer will be closer to 24mpg, which equates to a $27,500 savings, vs the WBX, in gas over that interval. It will also bring back much of the smoothness and quiet operation I gave up with the Tiico. Will it go 200K or 400K miles? I don't know - If I live long enough to get it there I'll let you know.
Conversions do come with a much larger up front cost compared to non-GoWesty rebuilds, and that's a big bite all at once, but it can pay off in the end. While power on the 2.4/2.5L GoWesty engines may be wonderful (I haven't driven one) you have additional costs for premium gas, same or lower mileage, and as with any rebuild, will still have 30 year old technology (if not actual componenty) for engine management.
Not trying to convince anyone of any particular approach. Love the WBX, hey more power to you. I just don't think it's realistic to compare options without looking at the significant fuel savings that can be had with a number of more modern engine and control system combinations.
Keith Hughes
'86 Westy Tiico (Marvin)
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