Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 20:00:44 -0700
Reply-To: Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Start up, back fire?
In-Reply-To: <BAY405-EAS252DA345E1C4830BFF5381EA0C00@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Dennis,
I'm no pro, but I've installed and re-installed a few hundred spark plugs
over the last few decades (several decades actually, I started wrenching on
cars ca. 1965), and know by feel how hard to tighten them using my Snap-On
flex head ratchet wrench. There is nothing like a good tool, I can feel the
compression washer compress when I install new ones, and I can tell when old
plugs with compressed washers are tight.
I know you can too, and I agree that anti-seize is not a good idea unless
you are a car manufacturer using programmed tools and specify 100,000 miles
between plug changes. At least I hope they use anti-seize at the engine
factory!
Below is the current version of that ratchet wrench, the best I have ever
owned. I've told my son it's his when I pass on and to not let his sister
get it and sell it when they divide everything! ;-)
https://store.snapon.com/Dual-80-Technology-Ratchets-Chrome--Ratchet-Sealed-
Head-Dual-80-174-Technology-Long-Flex-Head-3-8-drive-P645963.aspx
The internals failed a few years ago (after at least 20 years, probably 30),
and I just looked for a parked Snap-on truck and the guy rebuilt it for me
at no charge. You get what you pay for, but Snap-on builds a financing
charge and lifetime warranty into the price, which is why these tools are so
expensive.
They sell to working pros on credit ("...pay me $200 next week when you get
paid..."), so their franchisees are bill collectors. I almost bought a
franchise once, but rejected it because I would be buying the "accounts
receivable" on a not great route, along with a gas powered truck that
essentially put the franchisee out of business. Given the risk, I'm glad I
didn't: http://www.komonews.com/news/archive/4192611.html
It's Friday somewhere, so someone should hijack this thread and turn it into
a tool discussion!
Stuart
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Dennis Haynes
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 6:36 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Start up, back fire?
There can be 2 issues with spark plugs. The first has to do with
contamination. Any of the grease and metallic stuff can short the plug out.
The other has to do with the torque spec and preload retention. Spark plugs
like many common fasteners have torque specs based on the "as received"
condition. This spec is to provide some tension, preload pressure, what have
you on the connection. Depending on the materials involved (plug plating,
head material), the anti-seize can reduce the torque required for that
tension by some 40%. So instead of 14 lb. ft. you may only need 10 lb. ft.
Now the spark plug and head expand at vastly different rates and the plug
body will get much hotter than the head. This will give you different
expansion rates along the thread. With a really good lubricant this can help
the plug creep out as there will only be the friction of the gasket assuming
that also did not get lubed. If you use the anti-seize and still torque to
the dry specification you can stress the threads or on a really bad day
break the plug. Yes I've seen it!
Many mechanics fear over tightening spark plugs due them seizing in place or
having the threads in the head fail. Unfortunately a loose plug ca damage
the threads due to the hot gasses getting by. A plug blowing out makes for a
really noisy event.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Dennis Jowell
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 5:50 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Start up,back fire?
Dennis, tell me about anti seize. What does that do to the plugs?
Dennis Jowell
Scotch Hollow Farm
Newbury, Vermont
> On May 20, 2015, at 7:24 PM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>
> So now the next question is this. Did they leave a plug loose or is
> something going wrong that caused it to loosen? Does this engine have
> new or used heads? I have seen the heads crack across the spark plug
> holes, clear across both of them. I have also seen spark plugs with
> defective threads. I dealt with engines that had plugs loosen and even
> blow out. Inspect carefully. Install with a torque wrench. Do not use
> an anti-seize. Monitor the situation.
>
> After an installed engine gets some miles and has a chance to break in
> a compression test, leak down test, and oil pressure test is a good idea.
> Provides a baseline and should there be a deficiency gives an
> opportunity for corrective action early in the warranty period. As an
> added touch oil analysis can be the next friend.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
> Behalf Of Dennis Jowell
> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 6:03 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Start up,back fire?
>
> I just called GOWESTY and they did supply and installed the spark
> plugs for the new 2.2 engine that was installed in my 88' westy. So I
> must apologize that the mechanic who installed my engine did not mess
> up
the plugs problem.
> Thanks for the information and I stand corrected.
>
>
> Dennis Jowell
> Scotch Hollow Farm
> Newbury, Vermont
>
>
>> On May 16, 2015, at 4:26 PM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
> wrote:
>>
>> As GoWesty supplied the engine why ask them why there is a problem
>> with
> the fuel or ignition management of that engine installation? They are
> also too are away to do any troubleshooting. Now if this should be
> attributable to a mechanical problem in the engine then they should be
> involved ASAP. I have seen enough engine problems due to a bad
> installation or the reason for the original failure not being
> diagnosed or corrected to look at that stuff first.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>> Behalf Of
> Dave Mcneely
>> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 10:42 AM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: Start up,back fire?
>>
>> Dennis, obviously, the engine is running too rich. Why? I would put
>> that
> question to GoWesty.
>>
>> ---- Dennis Jowell <dennisjowell@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>> Question on why do I sometimes get a backfire from my 2.2 GOWESTY WBX.
> yesterday I drove the 88 gl Westy an 1.5 hr pulled over to check my
> GPS, shut the engine off. Then 2 minutes later started it and "bang"
> it backfired, it did start. Shut it down and tried again same thing.
> Drove home it didn't occur again. Any thoughts of what is going on?
> The new Engine has about 5000 miles on it. Maybe to many mice running
around in there.
>>>
>>> Dennis Jowell
>>> Scotch Hollow Farm
>>> Newbury, Vermont
>>
>> --
>> David McNeely
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