Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2015 19:47:11 +0000
Reply-To: Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Propane and refrigerator success
In-Reply-To: <A829B960-19A0-4D0A-8403-81E8DCE9686B@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Well, now Squirrel has mentioned the one true variable in all this, and
that is what you are trying to cool. We know that we can only pull 40
degrees below ambient and we plan accordingly. If it's going the leave the
fridge below 40F, we eat like we are at home. If it's going to be above, we
likely eat our high protein stuff the first night, fresh vegetables next
night with maybe canned stuff or mexican food the third night, etc. We even
have a recipe for great crab cakes that takes no refrigeration at all.
Anyway, with the domestic you end up using it more as a spoilage retarder
than an actual refrigerator when it is really hot. Bread, cheese and most
pantry vegetables will last a long time at 60 degrees, a whole lot longer
than at 100. But though I have to go on "business camping" trips year
around, I don't schedule them often when it is hot, and we absolutely don't
do family camping during the times that most of our food would be at risk
anyway.
Jim
On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 2:30 PM Eric Caron <ecaron1@comcast.net> wrote:
> Hi Jeff,
>
> Just out of curiosity I’ve been watching the internal temp now
> that I changed over to shore power. the internal temperature is rising and
> is now about 35 F and this is more then I’d expect as it is only about 3 F
> warmer then this morning. I’d guess my unit actually does a bit better on
> propane, certainly not more efficient on shore power.
>
> Eric
>
> On Jun 27, 2015, at 2:49 PM, Jeff Palmer <jpalmer@MYMTS.NET> wrote:
> >
> > Sounds logical but my heart tells me it gets colder on electricity. Of
> course my hearts only 50% efficient :)
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Jun 27, 2015, at 1:35 PM, Rocket J Squirrel <
> camping.elliott@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Same thing. The heat source is irrelevant, the limitation comes from
> the ammonia cycle.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott
> >> 1984 Westfalia, auto trans,
> >> Bend, Ore.
> >>
> >>> On 06/27/2015 11:32 AM, Jeff Palmer wrote:
> >>> What's the delta when it's on shore power?
> >>>
> >>> Jeff
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>> On Jun 27, 2015, at 12:54 PM, Rocket J Squirrel <
> camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hey Eric,
> >>>>
> >>>> I've done a lot of testing of interior temp v exterior temp on two
> >>>> models of ammonia-cycle regfrigerators -- the stock Vanagon one, and a
> >>>> standalone Dometic RC3000 unit that I use on longer off-the-grid
> camping
> >>>> trips.
> >>>>
> >>>> The ammonia cycle is capable of pulling something around a 40 degree
> (F)
> >>>> differential between ambient temperature and internal temperature, and
> >>>> my measurements agree with this.
> >>>>
> >>>> If it's a 100-degree (F) day, the inside of the refrigerator will
> slowly
> >>>> climb up to 60F. That is above the maximum allowable temperature for
> >>>> food safety (between 40F to 140F is the "danger zone") and also
> results
> >>>> in beer that is warmer than I like to drink.
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott
> >>>> 1984 Westfalia, auto trans,
> >>>> Bend, Ore.
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 06/27/2015 07:30 AM, Eric Caron wrote:
> >>>>> Back to the original thread!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> checked my internal refrigerator temp this morning and it is 29 F and
> >>>>> the outside temperature was 67 F. inside the van was 70 F. dial was
> >>>>> set to Max cooling.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Am I correct that this is the expected functioning of my stock
> >>>>> refrigerator with all stock parts and no related van mods? I was
> >>>>> considering pulling it to clean and upgrade to go westy fan but am
> >>>>> thinking that is probably a bad idea with it working well at this
> >>>>> point. Van has always lived inside and from what I can tell it is
> >>>>> clean behind and under the unit. I even keep the original outside
> >>>>> vent cover on when not in use.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> OK, I’ll admit it. Before lighting yesterday I turned on the stove
> >>>>> burners each just for a couple of seconds. they sounded air free and
> >>>>> smooth. I’ll light refrigerator without doing this next time. Hum,
> >>>>> or maybe I’ll keep doing it as a good luck charm!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Eric Caron 85 GL Auto Westfalia Currently on shore power waiting for
> >>>>> another temp check. Beverages cold and waiting. Is it 5:00 o’clock
> >>>>> somewhere?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Jun 27, 2015, at 10:03 AM, Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> My all-time favorite.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Jim
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 9:00 AM Larry Alofs <lalofs@gmail.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> And not resetting the trip odometer while the van is moving?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 9:57 AM, Rocket J Squirrel <
> >>>>>>> camping.elliott@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Unless someone can come up with a scenario where air can get
> >>>>>>>> into a sealed and pressurized propane line, I declare running
> >>>>>>>> the stove to light the refigerator as being in the same
> >>>>>>>> category as holding your tongue just right.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -- Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott 1984 Westfalia, auto
> >>>>>>>> trans, Bend, Ore.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On 06/26/2015 05:56 PM, Jim Felder wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> No need. The stove and the fridge are on separate gas
> >>>>>>>>> "circuits"
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Jim
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 7:29 PM PB <pbrattan@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Oh - one more hint they gave me, and I think the manual said
> >>>>>>>>> the same
> >>>>>>>>>> thing: Light the stove first. Once the propane is
> >>>>>>>>>> actually running in the stove, the fridge will start more
> >>>>>>>>>> easily.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
>
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