Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 22:30:28 -0400
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Electric Power Steering
In-Reply-To: <BLU169-W136E9B2DBECA20B8EC14632E0810@phx.gbl>
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Modern portable air conditioners are still using somewhere around 100
watts/1,000 btu. The late vanagon air conditioners are probably somewhere
around 16,000 to 18,000 btu. Add the inefficiency of the compressor never
being at the ideal speed for load and yep a lot of horsepower gets lost.
Dennis
From: James [mailto:jk_eaton@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 9:52 PM
To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: RE: Electric Power Steering
I too am intrigued by the idea of running the AC with an electrically driven
compressor. Dennis's note about the Vanagon AC compressor needing two or
three horsepower to run shows how far AC has come - 10,000 BTU home units
(which I expect are close to what the Vanagon unit is) now have compressors
that draw only 600 watts, or less than one horsepower - about 50 amps. It
would be interesting to know how many watts the heat pump (AC and heat) in
the Prius uses - though it's cooling a smaller volume than a Vanagon.
James
Ottawa, ON
> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 19:38:14 -0400
> From: d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM <mailto:d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
> Subject: Re: Electric Power Steering
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM <mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>
> Hydraulic power steering has a continuous parasitic load even when not
loaded. The need for p0wer steering assist is intermittent so going to an
electric system makes a lot of sense. Electric water pumps are not just used
to reduce engine load. A water pump has a limited range where it is
efficient. Designed to pump at low speeds it will just become a mixer at
higher speeds. Generally they spin at close to 1.5 to 2 times engine speed.
What works at idle will not works as well at 16,000 rpm. Also for pump
losses doubling the speed takes 4 times the power. Turn a pump fast enough
and push enough water and you can actually add heat to the water. This is
how many low end hot tubs heat the water, just pump it, no elements needed.
As for an electric compressor this too is now common especially in electric
and hybrid vehicles. For the Vanagon the compressor can probably take around
2 to 3 hp. At 746 watts/HP that is 2,236 watts. At 12 volts that 186.5 amps.
Add the inefficiencies of using an alternator, (that fan removes a lot of
heat) and you may need 4 to 5 hp to make the 3 the compressor is using. Add
the fans and the vehicles other electrical requirements and you need a 250
to 300 amp alternator.
>
> Just some thoughts,
> Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Todd Last
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 6:57 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM <mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Subject: Re: Electric Power Steering
>
> The new Mini Coopers have electric power steering. (They are often cited
for noise and require a fan to keep the motor from overheating.) Racers have
used electric water pump drives to squeeze out the last ounce of horsepower
from their engines. So why not electrically drive the water pump and power
steering ? Just think, you could add a speed control for the water pump -
have it pump based on the water temperature, not the engine RPM. The
equation to figure out is if it costs more in drag on the alternator to
generate the power needed to run the electric motor than you gain by not
turning the pump with the fanbelt. That would make for an interesting
experiment. Perhaps it would be worth running the A/C compressor on an
electric motor drive....
>
> Todd
> '88 Westy
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Alistair Bell" <albell@SHAW.CA <mailto:albell@SHAW.CA> >
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM <mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 11:58:12 AM
> Subject: Re: Electric Power Steering
>
> Yes, the UK guys have been doing it (Germans too).
>
> What I liked about the one I saw was how inexpensive it seemed to be.
>
> Alistair
>
>
>
> > On Jul 23, 2015, at 10:16 AM, Neil N <musomuso@GMAIL.COM
<mailto:musomuso@GMAIL.COM> > wrote:
> >
> > http://www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk/powersteering.html
> >
> > and....
> >
> > http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7150246
<http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7150246&highlight=nsk+japa
n+famous+bearing+eps+manufactured++corsa++late+2000#7150246>
&highlight=nsk+japan+famous+bearing+eps+manufactured++corsa++late+2000#71502
46
> >
> > --
> > Neil n
> >
> > Blog: Vanagons, Westfalia, general <http://tubaneil.blogspot.ca>
> >
> > 1988 Westy Images <https://picasaweb.google.com/musomuso/New1988Westy>
> >
> > 1981 Westfalia "Jaco" Images, technical
<http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/>
> >
> > Vanagon-Bus VAG Gas Engine Swap Group <http://tinyurl.com/khalbay>
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