Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 23:11:31 -0400
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Radiator Aux Cooling Fan 84 vs. 90 - compressor on for Aux
Fan to kick-on with 90 model??
In-Reply-To: <BLU169-W138C2A15B92DC63B7E0F007E0620@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In your case the compressor is out on a safety. As the controls are calling
for the compressor the radiator fan is turned on.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
James
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 10:56 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Radiator Aux Cooling Fan 84 vs. 90 - compressor on for Aux Fan
to kick-on with 90 model??
In our '91, the radiator fan turns on when the AC is turned on, even without
the compressor running (our compressor is in place, but the system has no
charge, as the compressor needs replaced... the fan turns on anyway).
James
Ottawa, ON
> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 10:59:39 -0400
> From: jack007@COMCAST.NET
> Subject: Re: Radiator Aux Cooling Fan 84 vs. 90 - compressor on for Aux
Fan to kick-on with 90 model??
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>
> Once we get the AC charged, then I can test the low-speed fan with AC
running.
> BTW... Replaced Condenser, and both AC lines from Rear to Front (had AC
lines made up at local shop N. of Detroit for $225, with ends)
>
> Since the 1990 is much different than my 1984 Vanagon, it may require the
compressor running to turn on the low speed.
> My 84 will kick the Aux fan on, just by turning on the AC (even at higher
temp, without the compressor running).
> Does anyone know if the 1990 models require that the Compressor is running
for the Aux fan to kick-on?
>
> Note: we changed the temp sensor/switch on the Radiator and the fan kicked
on (low speed), when sitting at idle for a long while.
> Glad I found my spare switch in my box of Vanagon parts :), didn't realize
I had one around, and the same switch is use on 84 / 90's.
>
> I really appreciate all the expert advice!
>
> Jack
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis Haynes [mailto:d23haynes57@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2015 8:10 PM
> To: 'Jack Reynaert'; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: RE: Radiator Aux Cooling Fan 84 vs. 90
>
> I guess if it's on the Samba it must be true. The radiator fan switch
senses the water temperature in the radiator closer the outlet than inlet. A
higher temp thermostat will make less coolant flow until it fully opens
allowing the radiator more time for it to cool. It is true that too low a
temp fan switch will run the fan needlessly. A 75c switch is ridiculous. In
hot weather with a good load you will never get the coolant temp that cool
so the fan goes forever. If you use the AC the fan will run for the
compressor anyway. If in this situation the radiator switch calls for the
fan above that the radiator is either saturated with heat due to extreme
conditions including it may not be good or the fan switch is too low.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Jack Reynaert
> Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2015 7:57 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Radiator Aux Cooling Fan 84 vs. 90
>
> Dennis and everyone else,
>
> Thank you for your great information.
>
> PS... was thinking about the low-temp switch, but just saw this on
TheSamba.
> "Just remember that the fan switch needs to be matched with the
thermostat. If you run the low temperature fan switch with a higher than
stock thermostat the fan may well run too often."
>
>
> Jack
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis Haynes [mailto:d23haynes57@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2015 4:31 PM
> To: 'Jack Reynaert'; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: RE: Radiator Aux Cooling Fan 84 vs. 90
>
> The wiring and operation of the 90 is drastically different than in the
84. The fan motor is much larger, one speed using a resistor to provide
lower speeds and multiple relays for control. Also depending on variations
some will have the cooling fan low speed operation effected or even disabled
if the AC wiring is hacked. Here is a brief summary of expected operation.
>
> Engine cooling
> When radiator fan switch calls for low speed cooling the switch directly
supplies power from the fuse block through the resistor to the motor.
> When same switch calls for high speed there is a relay above the fuse box.
This relay brings power directly from the battery (own wire) through a
fusible link directly to the fan motor. A failed fuse for the control and
low speed disables both these systems.
>
> To support the Air conditioner
> When the compressor is on the fan runs at a low speed energized from a
relay in the AC system. This also depends on the fan resistor.
> If system (AC) high side pressure increases due to insufficient cooling a
pressure switch operates a relay in the fuse box to increase the radiator
fan speed. Basically the other side of the fan resistor is placed in
parallel increasing current flow and thus fan speed.
> If pressure continues to climb at some point the AC will get cut out and
the fan will still run at the higher speed until it drops.
>
> There are number of different pressure switch set ups. Most of the late
vans use a single switch with multiple function often known as a trinary
switch.
>
> Trinary switch functions
> Low pressure (lost charge) cut out.
> 2 speed condenser (radiator) fan.
> High pressure cut out.
>
> The 84 has none of these features or safeties. They just self-destruct
when things go wrong.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Jack Reynaert
> Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2015 2:25 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Radiator Aux Cooling Fan 84 vs. 90
>
> When I run the AC on my 84 Westy, the Aux. fan on the Radiator runs as
long as the power is on to the AC in back (regardless if the compressor is
on).
> When I'm stuck in traffic, and the temp gage rises, the Aux fan does not
kick-on by itself. So, I turn on the AC, without compressor, and the fan
kick's on and the temp gage goes down. I suspect the temp sensor on the
radiator is bad, and plan to change it.
>
> Now, my question is related to the Aux radiator fan on the 90 Westy we are
just about complete with the mechanical overhaul (including new 2.2 GW
motor, brake system, radiator, condenser, LED upgrades, dash rebuilt with
AWESOME GW Kit, new everything that attaches to the GW motor as well).
>
> We took it for a ride today, and even at full operating temperature, the
aux fan didn't kick on. Put 12v to the fan motor and it worked fine, fuse
#1 fine, power to the red/white wire to the switch etc. However, when we
turned on the AC, the aux fan didn't turn on (like it does on my 84)... is
that normal for a 90?
>
> Any suggestions on likely causes (relay #53 or temp. sensor lower drivers
side of radiator?)
>
> Thanks for any insight!
>
> Jack R.
> N. of Detroit
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