Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 12:38:38 -0600
Reply-To: OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Front shocks replacement question
In-Reply-To: <4EE1AAB7-743F-4E1B-8479-2339ED59BAF2@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Eric
Hope I'm not Too Late with this ~ Want to bring to your attention a part that can easily disappear while replacing the
FrontShocks ~ In the Rear Hole for the Lower Shock Bolt there Is, OR Should Be, a Tapered/Split/Compressible/Bushing that
can easily fall out & disappear when that bolt gets removed or the Shock drops out ~ It is very important to properly securing
the bottom end of the shock ~
ETKA IDs it as ~ 251413097 tapered ring
ORR ~ DeanB
On 24 Aug , 2015, at 5:01 AM, Eric Caron wrote:
> these tips are still very helpful.
>
> I’ve completed 3 shocks. the front passenger shock went well though I probably did most things wrong!
>
> I placed the van on only one jack stand on the passenger side. I then supported the lower control arm with my floor jack using a 2 by 3 scrap piece of wood to fit between he wheel and the shock.
>
>
> I removed the wheel and then loosened the top nut on the old shock.
>
> I then took out the lower bolt and the shock was removed once I took off the top nut.
>
> I then placed the dust shield on the new shock inserted it back in place. Put on a new bushing and the metal cap and then partly tightened the top nut.
>
> Sadly this is where being blind became a temporary problem. the new shock had a allen fitting on the top to keep it from turning. I had no idea about this and only after a hour of trying to figure it out did I call a friend and get a answer.
> I cut down an allen wrench and then was able to tighten the top nut.
>
> In the meantime I had no trouble installing the lower bolt. it basically slid in with no trouble.
>
> In fack I never moved the floor jack supporting the lower control arm during this process. I just took one shock out and replaced it with the other and tightened things back up.
>
> Driver’s side yet to go.
> Tips and recommendations still helping!
>
>
> Eric Caron
> 85 GL Auto Westfalia
>
>
>> On Aug 24, 2015, at 2:11 AM, SDF ( aka ;jim lahey' - Scott ) <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> wrote:
>>
>> good point.
>> Have not had an issue though.
>>
>> in that case ...use a bottle jack just inboard of the lower shock bolt ..
>> so the arm can be held up ..and the shock come out.
>>
>> On 8/23/2015 6:55 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
>>> Letting the suspension drop without the shock as the stop puts a great deal of side angle strain on the ball joints. It is not the best practice.
>>>
>>> Dennis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of SDF ( aka ;jim lahey' - Scott )
>>> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 12:33 AM
>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> Subject: Re: Front shocks replacement question
>>>
>>> I use a floor jack a lot of course..
>>> but for some operations I use a bottle jack ..
>>> as it fits into a small spot .
>>> but with this method ..you don't need that really.
>>>
>>> you do want to be very careful that things can not slip ..
>>> or the angle change on the lower arm and then things slip.
>>>
>>> I don't recall a problem really.
>>> All I do is after removing the wheel..
>>> getting the van support solidly on the front jacking points with jack stands, ( mandatory to have jack stands ! )
>>>
>>> Then, take the load off the shock by placing the floor jack right under where the shock goes through the lower arm.
>>> Then with that 'hanging down' tension removed, undo the top of the shock.
>>>
>>> then I remove the floor jack.
>>> then undo the big nut and bolt at the bottom of the shock.
>>> The van has to be far enough off the floor for the shock to slide out the bottom and 'turn a corner' some to get it out of the vehicle.
>>> Big heavy duty jack stands are very handy for this job.
>>> Hanging down, the bottom of lower arm needs to be a good foot or so off the floor for the shock to come out easily.
>>>
>>> I've never seen a control arm get hurt or dented or anything with this method..
>>> I've never had a jack slip out of place..
>>> I will say ..two heavy duty solid jack stands really help on this job.
>>> Bigger than 'regular small' car jack stands preferably.
>>>
>>> you want that mutha well off the floor, and very solidly supported.
>>> Before you get under there...
>>> after it's on jack stands ..shove on the van some to see how stable it is. It better be rock solid.
>>>
>>> I would say if you don't currently have some pretty decent and largish jack stands, invest in some.
>>> taken care of ..they'll last decades and decades and it's something you always need any time the van is off the ground..
>>> and you can't really check on or take care of a Vanagon properly without it getting off the ground now and then.
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/22/2015 3:16 PM, Eric Caron wrote:
>>>> OK as close to the wheel as possible.
>>>>
>>>> so, what I need here is some guideline on where exactly to place my traditional floor jack with that round bowl shaped thing. there are all kinds of bolts and I think may the caliper sticking out and I need to be careful about placement. some kind of tactile guideline or even a measurement like 4 inches from the bottom of the shock toward the wheel. Stuart says as cost to the dust shield as possible, but there seems to be some fragile parts there.
>>>> Perhaps I’m being overly careful but I don’t want to mess up my good track record at this point!
>>>>
>>>> Eric Caron
>>>> 85 GL auto Westfalia
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 22, 2015, at 8:00 PM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Think this through apply some trigonometry. During normal operation the weight of the van is sitting on the wheel with the lower control arm acting like a lever. The inner control arm mount is the pivot point with the spring providing force down and the tire providing force up. The position of the spring in relationship to the tire and the pivot point is no accident. That carefully engineered so the spring and shock would respond a particular way to forces as they change. Jacking the arm between the spring and that pivot will increase the force required at the jack and on the pivot to keep the spring compressed. Generally what happens is the arm will pivot down and at some point make it slide off the jack. When shops use those under carriage jacks (alignment racks) incorrectly stuff can get damaged. I have seen the stamped control arms get bent, the inner mounts torn out and even the mounting tabs on the chassis damaged from lifting to close to that pivot. In general when lifting a spring loaded suspension part the closer to the wheel the better.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>>>>> Behalf Of Eric Caron
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2015 6:24 PM
>>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Front shocks replacement question
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Stuart and others,
>>>>>
>>>>> I’m still planning to do the front shocks, but decided to do the back ones first. and, that went very well and other then one moment of concern it went great. I now have new back shocks.
>>>>>
>>>>> The moment of concern was the that the shock didn’t immediately fit in the holder. the metal bracket was compressed so I had to end it out slightly so the new shocks would fit. after that they went in easy and were easy to adjust so that the bolts would go back in place.
>>>>>
>>>>> One question about the front shocks on my 85.
>>>>>
>>>>> is it really best to place the jack between the shock opening and the wheel? It looks fragile there. Would it be ok or better to place the jack on the other side of the shock closer to the center of the van?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sory for the naive question but I’m always concerned about jack placement until someone shows me where it is clearly safe.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks again for the great tips. It is satisfying to have done the back shocks on my own. Along with the recent front brake success I’m feeling pretty good right now!
>>>>>
>>>>> Eric Caron
>>>>> 85 GL Auto Westfalia
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 4, 2015, at 11:29 PM, Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just replaced my son's on Sunday (second time I've done this job, first was on my '85), and you don't need a spring compressor, you use the vehicle's weight. You need a full size floor jack and stands. First, jack up the front high enough to get the wheels off and lower the van on to stands under the cross member. Have chocks under both sides of both wheels that are on the ground.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You then use the jack under the lower control arm as near to the brake backing plate as you can get it so you don't block the opening where the shock will have to drop down. Raise the jack, compressing the spring, until you are lifting the van off the jack stands slightly. This should be enough to compress the spring adequately for installing the shock, it has been for me anyway. If not, you can have an assistant sit in the front seat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A ratcheting 17 mm box wrench is a joy on this job, and use an adjustable crescent wrench to hold the shaft at the top. For the '85 with pressed steel lower control arms the lower shock bolt is inside the box. I used a 1/2" drive air wrench with an extension to get at it. It's a 19mm bolt and nut. Tighten to 110 ft lbs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The van has to be high enough to get the shock in and out from the bottom. You will reinstall the dust shield onto the shock and then the spacer tube over the shaft on top of the dust shield that is in the old rubber bushing. Just get the top nut started to hang the shock and then you should be able to align the lower bolt easily (adjust the jack if necessary). Then tighten the top nut fully until it tightens against the spacer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the rears, you also need to support the rear lower control arm with a jack, but these shocks are bolted top and bottom and easy to replace.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All four should take no more than a couple hours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stuart
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Eric Caron
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 6:15 PM
>>>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>>>> Subject: Front shocks replacement question
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a retired auto body and frame repair man as a neighbor and helper. he also restores older cars and builds street rods.
>>>>>> I have my new shocks here and he is offering to install them with me. He looked at my Bently and thought it looked pretty straight forward.
>>>>>> So, first cool thing is he is willing to be my eyes and let me do much of the work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My only concern is that the front shocks are in the springs. he seemed to think they would come out safely without a spring compressor. Is that true? i thought folks here said it was needed. We didn’t read anything about that in the Bently.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> any safety tips would be appreciated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eric Caron
>>>>>> 85 GL auto westfalia.
>>>>>>
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