Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 15:34:04 -0700
Reply-To: Jeff Schwaia <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jeff Schwaia <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: regearing a manual trans
In-Reply-To: <55EA6D8E.4090801@turbovans.com>
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1st isn't a 1/2 granny gear, and you definitely would not want to make a habit out of starting in 2nd gear!
The 2WD 5 speed transmission has a 4.11 ratio 1st gear, as compared to the 3.78 ratio of the 4 speed. That is only a 9% difference in gear ratio.
2nd is even less of a difference... 2.13 v 2.06 ~3%
But you are right about 3 thru 5. The ratios in the 5 speed make accelerating and holding your speed up grades much better.
Cheers,
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of SDF ( aka ;jim lahey' - Scott )
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 9:21 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: regearing a manual trans
there is one thing that's really awesome about the 5-speed trans...
the odd one that has 1st back and left ..and it's a 'half-a-granny' low type gear.
( You often start out in 2nd if it's like a rolling stop , or downhill. )
the real beauty is you have Three gear ratios from 35 mph to top speed.
in a 4 speed vanagon you have only 2 gears to play with there...
3rd can be used from 35ish to 55ish ..
4th ( top gear ) can be used from 40ish to top speed. Two gears to play with.
in this 5 speed...very nice with 3 gears in the 35 to top speed .
I delived a guys 84 Vanagon one time, into which we had put in a European 5 speed ..
so 'like the diesel 5 speed but gasoline ratios.
tell me ..in ANY VW Van ever...
you always build up speed heading into a long grade or hill, right ?
Can you ever think of a time or VW van of any type in which you DownShifted out of top gear at 65 mph !!?
that was awesome.
higher geared than the 83 diesel 5 speed for sure ..
but the diesel 5 speed is pretty sweet in those 3 three gears.
the spacing between ratios is just as important as the ratios themselves.
as mentioned ...people have raised the top gear or two ..
and lost out somewhere else in the power curve.
Have seen two pretty strong cases of it ..where previously you always had a gear and a throttle positon that matched for most normal driving ..
after changing a gear or two, and messing up the spacing ..
you get to ...'shoot, too reved out for easy driving, I'll shift up ..shoot...now I'm lugging !" ..and back and forth a lot like that form having too big a whole between some gears.
Really makes it unpleasant to drive.
On 9/4/2015 5:18 AM, Don Hanson wrote:
> "the only advantage.....?" That is a rather large understatement..
>
> .The 5sp is a very real enhancement to the driveability of a
> Vanagon...With a stock motor it may be slightly less useful than it is
> with my own ABA inline Jetta gas motor, but the extra gear allows me
> to maintain highway speeds with little effort and to use my low first
> gear for rough off highway without riding the clutch...When the van's
> speed declines to about 60-65, I simply grab my 4th gear and continue
> on at about 3700 rpms, the meat of my powerband...rather than waiting
> and lugging along till the revs really get low, or downshifting and
> redlining the motor....The spread between 4th and 5th is perfect. The
> low gear is rarely used, mainly for low traction, rough roads or starting from a stop on a steep hill.
> I often hear stock motor vanagons driving along at what sounds
> like maybe 1500rpms in top gear...That can't be good for the motor and
> it certainly makes them easy to overtake........
>
> On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 7:30 AM, Jon VO <jondvo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ditto. About the only advantage of a (true) 5sp with a stock motor is
>> the availability of more gears, and a better match to driving
>> conditions. A taller final gearing will only be a benefit if there is
>> no wind and low elevation.
>> Jon
>>
>>
>> On 9/3/2015 11:17 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
>>
>>> What are you trying to accomplish? For a stock engine you can do a
>>> little bit of fine tuning but there is very little benefit and if
>>> you a person that likes to drive at higher speeds you will make some things worse.
>>> Contrary to popular belief lowering the engine can actually reduce
>>> your top speed. The stock set up is somewhat gear bound with the top
>>> speed generally limited by wind resistance and available horsepower.
>>> Horse power is a function of torque and speed. Lower the engine
>>> speed and you lower the available horsepower. Especially on the
>>> Syncros and automatics a change as small as going over 27" tire diameter makes this evident.
>>>
>>> Lowering the engine speed at a given road speed means more force
>>> (torque) is then required to get the same work done (wind resistance
>>> and hill climb). This increases cylinder pressures, bearing loads,
>>> production of nasty NOx emissions along with increased tendency for
>>> the engine to go into pre-ignition, (knock). On the driveline side
>>> this increased force results in increased wear or some parts
>>> failures. The transmission is undersized for the load and speed already.
>>>
>>> Dennis
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>>> Behalf Of Dan N
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 2:35 PM
>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> Subject: regearing a manual trans
>>>
>>> hi all,
>>>
>>> I understand the concept of regearing the trans with a stronger
>>> engine, more HP (conversions etc..)
>>>
>>> but what about regearing the trans and using the plain old 2.1 WBX?
>>> any benefit?
>>>
>>> any idea?
>>>
>>> thanks
>>>
>>> dan
>>>
