Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 10:00:34 -1000
Reply-To: "SDF ( aka ;jim lahey' - Scott )" <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: "SDF ( aka ;jim lahey' - Scott )" <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Organization: Cosmic Reminders
Subject: Re: [WetWesties] The Vanagon cooling system.. it's
counterintuitive.. (long post)
In-Reply-To: <CAHTkEuKeALvwPrCX--NJ6oO9FBtW+pa=ASvipYzmj3ZPMfaK+g@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
I wouldn't say it's counter-intuitive really ..
I'd just say there are about 150 separate cooling system parts spread
from one end of the van to the other ..
and having the radiator that far from the engine ..
with the engine at one and and rad at the other being high points..
with pipes under the van between ..
it is inherently prone to unbleed ..
and with that many separate hoses, heater cores, oil cooler/heat
exchanger , hose clamps ( there could be 40 in some vanagons , at least ) ..
plus in some cases plastic parts that warp and disintegrate..
for sure ..it's one of the most 'challenged' cooling system designs in
all of cardome.
with proper care and attention they work quite well though ..but not
idiot proof in any way really.
also ..this combustion gases into the cooling system from head gasket or
cylinder head cracks or weakness..
I started working on cars in the early 60's ..
and the classic head gasket system all through the 60's and 70's was
milky looking engine oil.
That just doesn't seem to ever happen anymore.
and the combustion gases thing can be intermittent ,
so unless you know to really look for that one, or test for it ( the HC
sniff test on the tailpipe is not always a definitive test ) ...that one
can trick you.
The head gasket on all conventional liquid-cooled engines is 'the spot'
in the engine that gets the most regualar stress on it ..it's amaziing
they last and work as well as they do..
high combustion pressures, lots of cold/hot cycling ..amazing how well
they work and last actually.
a 'general rule' ..since 'forever' ...a used VW engine could/should get
a new head gasket as a matter of course, before going into the next
vehicle.
Scott
On 9/6/2015 5:51 AM, Don Hanson dhanson928@gmail.com [wetwesties] wrote:
> My Vanagon's cooling system has fooled me before... Cool air coming
> from the heater? ....that turns out to be one of the Vanagon symptoms
> of coolant loss...Who'd a thunk that, if you weren't familiar with
> Vanagons?
> ....When I first got my '84 and did my normal new-to-me vehicle
> servicing, which includes new coolant, I was 'fooled' as I watched my
> temperature gauge swing around, regardless of the ambient air temp or
> the load on the motor....Putting my hand down into the air coming from
> the heater, it felt cool, which I figured meant "Ok, something wonky
> with the temperature gauge or with the gauge the wiring, but the
> motor can't really be hot if the heater is blowing only warmish
> air...." That mistaken thinking led to my blowing a headgasket (VW
> inline gas motor) after driving the van around for a few months with
> a big air bubble in the cooling system...
> I've since become a more knowledgeable Vanagon guy. The P.O.
> who did the original inline/diesel style gas motor conversion in my
> van was not very meticulous with his work....the Coolant Level light
> wasn't working properly, either, when I got the van, and I have
> never managed to make it do so (admittedly, I'm poor with fiddly
> wiring problems) despite trying to make it work a few times.
> Instead of depending just on 30-yr old dash warning lights,(and
> spending more hours figuring out how to make it work properly) I've
> installed some instruments to actually tell me what is going on inside
> the motor....an oil pressure and an oil temperature gauge...Blinky
> warning lights, buzzers and OBD code readers are all good...when they
> work properly, every time, but over the years I've wasted a lot of
> time and money trying to fix 'indicated' problems that weren't really
> there..."faulty indications"...
> So I monitor my gauges, though I may make the time, after
> yesterday's scary coolant "incident", to give another try at making
> the Coolant Level blinky light on my dash function..
> ..I figured (correctly, it turns out) that if I ever did lose my
> coolant or start to overheat the motor, I would see it in the
> readings from my redundant (now) gauges, especially the oil-related
> ones...Well, I did, and I did...Scary, though...
> I'd just topped out climbing a steep and winding pass from
> Antelope, Or..(Home of the Bag One, the Yogi who collected Rolls
> Royces, had a cult community there and almost took over that county
> before being sent packing) to Shaniko, Or...an almost ghost town on
> the high desert plateau. As is my habit, I glanced at the gauges and
> "Whoa!" the oil pressure was down to 40 psi,(from it's usual reading
> at speed of about 65psi) the oil temp was at 300f (normal is ~180f)
> and the coolant temp gauge was not reading where it almost always does
> (though is was NOT reading super hot. and it never did till I
> eventually refilled the cooling system). So after a panic stop,
> unloading my bicycles and sailboards to get at the motor... and some
> roadside diagnostics...(an ice cold radiator...no steady idle and very
> rough running from the motor...very hot oil smell when I opened the
> engine lid.) I thought "Crap, this high mileage inline gas motor
> finally blew up, or something" After extensive phone time trying to
> arrange a flatbed...(I was almost 60 miles from the nearest tow
> service) I gave it "one more try" and she started right up, running
> normally and sounding just fine.. No bad smoke, no awful knocking, no
> puddle of oil under...(I surmise the rough running was because the
> Temp II sensor was also "uncovered")....So I topped up the coolant
> tank and discovered a slight coolant dripping at the motor end...The
> hose to the oil/coolant exchanger has a tiny pinhole..
> Anyhow, the oil gauges worked, saved me..... though if I had only my
> coolant temperature gauge I would now still be sitting in Shaniko
> ghost town with a blown motor.......
> Wonder why the VW engineers didn't figure out a better place for
> the coolant temp gauge sensor so that when your van begins to heat up
> from low coolant or an air lock in the cooling system the gauge
> temperature gauge actually still shows it? Instead, I guess, they
> just added on that additional system...I've encountered similar
> 'fixes' on some of my other Germanic vehicles...
>
> long post, sorry...but there's a lot of things that happen in
> Vanagons that aren't common in other type of vehicles...and ...Gauges
> are good!
>
> __._,_.___
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> Posted by: Don Hanson <dhanson928@gmail.com>
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