Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 2015 00:12:35 -0500
Reply-To:     Cary Chiang <ccchiang1@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Cary Chiang <ccchiang1@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Need Help diagnosing a Non-starting '86 Vanagon
In-Reply-To:  <5605C7C6.6040806@turbovans.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Many thanks to all who offered their help and advice.  I've been off the
list for many years, and was unaware of that nifty test harness.  I
couldn't build one on short notice however, since all the Radio Shacks
around here closed after the bankruptcy, and I didn't have the diodes
handy.  The other info was very helpful, also.
I spent some time with the van yesterday with a multi-meter, and found 12
volts at the alternator terminal, but none at the terminal inside the black
box, or at the coil terminal with the key on.  I ran a 12 volt jumper wire
to the black box terminal, heard the fuel pump energize, and the engine
started right up.  After shutting off the engine and disconnecting the
jumper wire (but with key still in "on" position), I heard the ECU / fuel
pump relays clicking continuously.  I found 9-10 volts at the coil
terminal, where previously there was none.  It seems that I may have a bad
connection of the D15(?) wire that some of you mentioned?  I ran out of
time to check for voltage / corrosion of that wire at the fuse block, but
will check for it next time.  In reading the thread on the wiring bypass
harness, I saw mention of a "D15 carbon / corrosion problem", and
installing a relay to take the load off of that wire.  Rather than install
a relay, is it possible to attach the D15 wire to another "key-on 12 volt"
source on the back of the fuse block instead?


On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 5:16 PM, SDF ( aka ;jim lahey' - Scott ) <
scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:

> fwiw ..
> I define 'overheating' as inability to sustain running ..coolant
> dissapears, boils over, pukes out ...or is consumed in the engine ...in
> any case ...it's obviously badly and actually overheating.
>
> The other condiition is 'running hot' ..
> that it may read say 60 % of the gauge, but can keep going like that a
> long time.
>
> which is it ?
>
> one thing to watch for ...
> exhaust gases get into the coolant area of the engine ..which
> immediately displaces the coolant ..
> and water pump can't pump exhaust or air of course...
> What it looks like is ..
> very hot engine, very cold radiator ...as if the main pipes are blocked
> ...but they are not of course.
>
> if you get that one , most likely one or both head gaskets or heads are
> allowing exhaust into the coolant portion of the engine.
> Heads have to come off.
> it's quite common actually.  And there aren't external leaks or anything.
>
> for sure you should make sure it has a good thermostat.
> scott
>
>
> On 9/25/2015 11:27 AM, OlRivrRat wrote:
>
>>          If the BlkWire that Marc spoke of has 12v then check that the 2
>> relays in the BlkBox above the
>>
>> Coil are Switching ~ Have an assist' turn the Igni'Key while you ListenTo
>> or Touch those relays ~
>>
>> 1 Powers the ECU & the other Powers the FuelPump ~ They are Cheap ~ All
>> Vanagons should have
>>
>> a Spare 1 or 2 of those OnBoard ~
>>
>>          Also in regards to BadBatt' ~ I have had a Batt' with a
>> ShortedCell so it still had the Ability to
>>
>> Crank the Starter QuiteNicely but there was not EnoughJuice to make the
>> ECU Happy ~
>>
>>
>>                ORR ~ DeanB
>>
>>
>> On 25 Sep , 2015, at 7:20 AM, Marc Perdue wrote:
>>
>> If the van had alternator problems, i.e., the alternator died and the
>>> van ran till the battery ran out of juice, it could have killed the
>>> battery. Why not start at the beginning and see if the battery's good?
>>>
>>> Marc
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 11:33 PM, vw_van_fan_Mark <madvws@cox.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> None of the grounds up under the dash have anything to do with whether
>>>> the van runs or not. There is a key-on power black wire that goes from
>>>> the dash area back to the engine compartment and that wire plays a
>>>> critical role.  On most vans the black wire goes to the ignition coil to
>>>> power it and to turn on the ECU power relay as well as enable the fuel
>>>> pump relay. So check for 12 volt power at the coil when key is on. Since
>>>> it is an 86 the exact wiring path can vary. But since this may have
>>>> started with work done on the alternator it would be wise to check for
>>>> constant power on that stud in the engine wiring box.  When you get back
>>>> to the van with a meter I'd be willing to help you check things out.
>>>>
>>>> There is a wiring tool you build to bypass a lot of the known failure
>>>> areas that can keep a van from starting.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=349429&highlight=wiring+bypass
>>>>
>>>> Mark
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cary Chiang wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm trying to help a first-time vanagon owner get his van running.
>>>>> It's an '86, with 2.1L and manual trans.  I was told that the van was
>>>>> being
>>>>> driven almost daily, had some sort of alternator problem, and then
>>>>> failed
>>>>> to start one day.  A mechanic diagnosed that the spark plugs weren't
>>>>> firing, but a lack of money prevented any further work.  I noticed that
>>>>> the
>>>>> ignition switch was functioning poorly, and temporarily swapped in a
>>>>> good
>>>>> used one.  Next, I noticed that the fuel pump wasn't energizing when
>>>>> the
>>>>> ignition key was turned to the accessory position.  I ran power
>>>>> directly
>>>>> to
>>>>> the fuel pump to get it running, but the engine still won't start (I'm
>>>>> assuming because of no spark from the plugs).  I'm assuming that there
>>>>> is an electrical issue that is affecting both the fuel pump and the
>>>>> ignition system.
>>>>> I've cleaned up the two
>>>>> multi-pronged ground connections above the fuse block, and replaced the
>>>>> ECU, but am running out of easy ideas.  I plan to go back with a
>>>>> multi-meter, and check for voltage at the fuse block and at the
>>>>> terminal
>>>>> in
>>>>> the engine compartment black box.  Hopefully I will have access to a
>>>>> Bentley also, but my schematic-reading and Vanagon diagnosing skills
>>>>> are
>>>>> pretty rusty.  Any idieas and suggestions as to additional components,
>>>>> grounds, or
>>>>> voltages that I should check would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance!
>>>>>
>>>>>