Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 01:29:34 +0000
Reply-To: Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: NVC Re: VW gave diesel drivers what they wanted!
In-Reply-To: <34BA001C-6849-47DF-A833-1E7DDB4B09EE@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Look, they make great diesel cars (gas too). If they can survive the
financial carnage, people will eventually come to respect their excellent
diesel offerings for the performance and mileage they actually deliver.
They didn't have to scam the public, those are great diesel cars. The dug
the hole when the lied to the public and to regulators. If they survive the
onslaught of litigation, which remains to be seen, they will do fine if
they stay honest.
Jim
On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 8:22 PM Angus Gordon <birdworks@gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually James makes a very valid point, in that both fuel efficiency and
> tailpipe emissions must be considered. If VW cuts tailpipe emissions in
> terms of PPM at the expense of fuel economy, what is the net effect?
> Consideration should be given to measuring emissions output per mile, along
> with minimal fuel use. That would be something useful.
>
> Angus
>
>
> > On Oct 1, 2015, at 3:10 PM, SDF ( aka ;jim lahey' - Scott ) <
> scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> wrote:
> >
> > You could work for VW since you are so skilled at Justifying illegality
> !
> > "We're just giving them what they want ! ' ..and hey ...if we have
> > to trick the regulators a little to do that ...that's ok.
> >
> > That would be an interesting poll :
> > what portion of VW diesel owners bought their car largely because they
> > are suppossidly 'clean' and not environmentally so harmful ?
> >
> > or ...of the 3 biggies .....fuel economy, power/driveability and
> > environmental correctness..
> > what wight would they give to each category ?
> >
> > I suspect that joe average consumer is concerned first with their own
> > personal benefit, and less so about the larger environmental picture.
> > < lol...and that is what is taught subtly and pervasively throughout
> > Consumerism ..it's all about what you can get for yourself. >
> >
> > In Portland OR, just on the tv news the other night ..
> > a diesel car owner found a note on his windshield in the morning
> > ...blasting him for driving a polluting car.
> > This is 'So Portland' was the guy's reaction.
> > Scott
> >
> >> On 10/1/2015 9:29 AM, James wrote:
> >> The opposite argument to this is that they did it for the faithful VW
> loving diesel owner.
> >> Let me explain this alternate argument.
> >>
> >> If you have a VW diesel, you probably value its fuel economy and power
> most - not many people outside of the LA and Frankfurt 'smog basins' or the
> EPA care that much about NOx. By running with this 'trick' software, VW
> gave owners the best of both worlds - a car that will pass emissions tests
> as required by governments, AND a car that gets fabulous fuel economy and
> great power in real-world driving.
> >>
> >> I know very few VW diesel owners who boast about their car's low
> pollution numbers. I know a lot of VW diesel owners who boast about their
> car's power and exceptional fuel economy - about how they get even better
> fuel mileage than the EPA/Transport Canada estimates.
> >>
> >> In that sense, VW was just giving its faithful diesel owners EXACTLY
> what they wanted.
> >>
> >> Pity that what VW diesel drivers wanted was technically impossible, and
> the VW solution to give it to them was thus illegal.
> >>
> >>
> >> James
> >> Ottawa, ON
> >>
> >>> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 13:31:43 -1000
> >>> From: scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM
> >>> Subject: Re: NVC Re: VW, honour, and culture
> >>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> >>>
> >>> it's a big deal because....
> >>>
> >>> 3. IT WAS INTENTIONAL DECEPTION.
> >>> they tricked everyone ..apparently intentionally ...the faithful
> >>> VW-loving owner...
> >>>
> >>
>
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