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Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 2015 16:21:57 -0500
Reply-To:     John Rodgers <jrodgers113@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         John Rodgers <jrodgers113@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fwd: * 10/4/2015 Needed NOW! Vanagon (1981) ONLY starts when
              cold /How To FIX this advice. PLEASE . . .
Comments: To: lindamerrillberkeley@yahoo.com
In-Reply-To:  <625569070-1444073276-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1838416960-@b2.c1.bise6.blackberry>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Let me get this clear: the engine will not turn over with the starter when hot but will start by pushing it?

If that is the case, I would say your problem is starter related, no other. I have experienced hot/undersized wire syndrome myself on other things. Fine when cold - throws the breaker when the wire gets hot. In your case not likely because the car has been in use. In spite of the fact you have a low use starter, replacing it with a new one, including a starter solenoid (in this case new - not reworked) will probably get you yhrough this. I had a very similar prlblem on my '88 GL. Had a low mileage starter, and the solennoid went bad. Wouldn't engage when engine was hot. In my case a new starter solenoid did the trick. That might be where to start. Replace the solenoid. One thing. There is a bushing for the starter motor. Me sure its there, otherwise it may cock over and bind, thus being hard tostart lr not starting at all.

Good luck!

John On Oct 5, 2015 14:30, "Linda Merrill" <lindamerrillberkeley@yahoo.com> wrote:

> To answer you: > > Cranks and starts when cold. > > When warm: no cranking > > visually, MechanicA sees Bendix only > going part way out when warm ... > Not far enough to engage > > Note: Pushing w/a volvo and popping > the clutch started it up instantly > when stalled and warm on Saturday. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "SDF ( aka ;jim lahey' - Scott )" <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM > > > Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com> > Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 09:21:12 > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> > Reply-To: "SDF ( aka ;jim lahey' - Scott )" <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM > > > Subject: Re: Fwd: * 10/4/2015 Needed NOW! Vanagon (1981) ONLY starts > when > cold /How To FIX this advice. PLEASE . . . > > in all this below it's not exactly clear to me whether , warm, it cranks > but won't fire up, > or it has trouble cranking on the starter when warm. > > ( I have had to ask this question, when someone says 'won't start' only > about 20,000 times in the last 3 + decades. ..Please say ..cranks fine > but won't fire, or won't crank on the starter properly. ) > > the wires in this poor old van are 34 years old. > I have found that a heavy duty generic starter button from a FLAPS, > mounted conveniently in the dash just above the light switch on the left > side of the instrument panel, can really help. > > I like to wire them direct from the battery to the starter solenoid > trigger terminal .... > with fat wires. THAT will give your starter a really solid shot of juice. > ( of course, wired direct it's hot all the time ..so starter will > energize anytime the button is pushed .. > be careful about that for sure. ) > > I've also noticed, on the rare time I have touched an air-cooled vanagon .. > that often, in the electrical system, just like thousands of old bugs > and buses have suffered from , the wires are hacked up..modified poorly > and so on ...often you need to 'start over' and sometimes that's > barely possible. > > good luck. > it's very worth having an auxiliary starter button that sends a solid > shot of juice to the solenoid.. > no need to remove the stock system...just leave ignition switch and that > wiring still there. > > On 10/5/2015 8:31 AM, Jim Arnott wrote: > > This showed up in my inbox. Probably ought to be in the Vanagon List’s > inbox as well. > > > > I don’t know that Ms. Linda is on list, so please remember to reply all. > > > > Jim > > > >> Begin forwarded message: > >> > >> From: "LEM" <lemberkeley@yahoo.com> > >> Subject: * 10/4/2015 Needed NOW! Vanagon (1981) ONLY starts when cold > /How To FIX this advice. PLEASE . . . > >> Date: October 4, 2015 at 9:05:19 PM PDT > >> To: "LindaMerrill" <lemberkeley@yahoo.com> > >> Reply-To: lemberkeley@yahoo.com > >> > >> 10/4/2015 Needed NOW! Vanagon (1981) ONLY starts when cold /How To FIX > this advice. PLEASE . . . > >> > >> HELP! [Okay to forward to "right" wise ones] > >> > >> Do You know how to solve this? > >> To get the Vanagon starting reliably warm > >> and cold? > >> > >> > >> Or, do you know someone who will/might > >> know how to solve this? > >> To get the Vanagon starting reliably warm > >> and cold? > >> > >> Do you know "the right person" who I can > >> talk to ASAP about how to fix this, and who > >> should do it that I can actually afford? > >> > >> > >> HERE is what I Know/think: > >> > >> (A) > >> In the last few months, my 1981 Vanagon > >> stopped starting when it is warm. > >> > >> It starts easily when cold. > >> > >> Once the Vanagon is driven far enough to > >> warm it up (maybe a mile + ), the van will > >> not start again until it is cold again. > >> > >> Given an hour-plus to cool down, the van > >> will again start again, just fine. > >> > >> (B) > >> Several people have worked on this -- and > >> charged me for that -- and the car still only > >> starts when cold. > >> > >> (C) > >> The Bosch starter has less than 200 miles > >> on it. A new/rebuilt started caused the same > >> only-cold starting a few days ago. > >> > >> The second, long bolt to hold the starter on is > >> missing. I got a M10 D-Head 123 mm bolt > >> from The Bus Lab, and a mechanic was not > >> able to install that bolt -- saying it does not > >> fit / "wrong bolt" -- today. > >> > >> (D) > >> This is an ASI camper conversion, and has > >> an old auxiliary battery under the driver's > >> seat -- which does not hold a charge. > >> > >> Months ago, someone disconnected this > >> old auxiliary battery -- to keep the battery > >> isolater from trying to charge IT instead of > >> the main, passenger-side battery. > >> > >> With only the one battery hooked up, the > >> battery isolater still seems to be working, > >> the alternator seems to be working, and this > >> very new battery seems to have adequate > >> power. > >> > >> The temperature gauge does not seem to > >> work properly, and sometimes jumps and > >> stutters, going right from barely warm to > >> hot and back in two seconds. > >> > >> (E) > >> Yesterday, a very accomplished Volvo > >> MechanicB was confident he could diagnose > >> a solve this no-warm-starting. > >> > >> I easily started the cold car, drove it several > >> miles to the two mechanics, and shut it off. > >> And it would not turn the engine over, warm. > >> > >> We waited for it to cool down, and MechanicA > >> prepared to swap the "newish" Bosch > >> starter back in so I could return the brand-new > >> starter. > >> Starters out, MechanicA saw that the "fat" > >> wire that goes to the starter had a broken > >> specialized connection. So, he used a nut to > >> hold that wire firmly in place on the threaded > >> on-starter connection; then he attached the > >> two thinner wires to the same threaded > >> on-starter connection, below the fat wire. > >> > >> Then I started the now-cold VW with its > >> Bosch starter, and took it for a test drive. > >> I got it warm, stalled it, and it would not > >> start. > >> We pushed it to pop the clutch, I drove it > >> back to their place, and they began testing. > >> > >> MechanicB (the expert) tried various things. > >> MechanicA watched a few warm non-starts > >> and saw that the Bendix was not being > >> thrown far enough to engage -- when the > >> van was warm. > >> > >> MechanicB looked at the positive battery > >> wire by the post and said it was too flimsy. > >> (Someone had spliced this too-thin wire > >> onto the wire coming from the rear years > >> before I bought the VW.) > >> Well, he reasoned, if this cable gives a > >> marginal connection when cold, maybe it > >> carries too little power when hot. > >> (A grounding issue somewhere?) > >> > >> So, both mechanics connected a good battery > >> to the starter (using jumper cables, I think), > >> from a few feet away, at the rear of the VW > >> ar of the VW. > >> Then, they used the same wire to "jump"? > >> the starter without using the ignition key > >> -- I'm getting fuzzy here -- > >> and the still-warm car started right up. > >> > >> So, MechanicB felt that his diagnosis ** had > >> been confirmed: > >> the non-original positive battery > >> wire . . . was too flimsy. > >> (Someone had spliced this too-thin wire > >> onto the wire coming from the rear years > >> before I bought the VW.) > >> Well, he reasoned, if this cable gives a > >> marginal connection when cold, maybe it > >> carries too little power when hot. > >> (A grounding problem?) > >> > >> > >> AND. MechanicB reasoned that IF > >> *** he got a correct-gauge battery cable, > >> with connectors at each end and ran it under > >> the car from the starter to (the positive > >> ground ??? ) on the battery, all would be well. > >> > >> OKAY: MechanicB did his *** good-cable > >> purchase and battery-to-starter swap-in ... > >> He then started the cold car with the > >> ignition key, drove the car in circles around > >> a building to warm it up, and then shut it off. > >> > >> AND, now warm, again it would not start > >> with the key (one guesses that an observor > >> would again see the Bendix only going > >> part way toward engaging . . . ), just as before. > >> > >> MechanicB is very upset, and thinks that a > >> push-button starter, on the steering column, > >> will solve this . . . And he has no other ideas. > >> > >> MechanicsB and A have NOT > >> found a starter relay on this van > >> and believe that the ignition switch must > >> be fine. > >> > >> > >> MechanicA was not involved today and > >> I filled him in by phone. MechanicA does not > >> see how a push-button starter will fix this > >> situation, if the low-power doesn't get the > >> Bendix to thrust all the way and engage. > >> > >> > >> ...... > >> > >> I need to get this car starting reliably! > >> And, I paid for the AUG 2016 registration, > >> which needs a smog certificate to complete > >> it. I want it to start when warm before I take > >> it to a Test-Only smog shop, and I park this > >> VW on the public street. > >> It needs to be smogged so it can stay safely > >> parked on the street. > >> > >> Money, time, and car functioning are major > >> issues for me here. Into small savings to > >> pay for this already ... > >> > >> I need: the repair actual solution, a truly > >> affordable person to "get it done right the > >> first time," and to pass my smog. > >> > >> ........... > >> > >> Thank you So much! > >> Nowe that you know all non-mechanic I > >> can think might apply, here are my original > >> questions again: > >> > >> > >> > >> Do You know how to solve this? > >> To get the Vanagon starting reliably warm > >> and cold? > >> > >> Or, do you know someone who will/might > >> know how to solve this? > >> To get the Vanagon starting reliably warm > >> and cold? > >> > >> Could this knowledgeable "right car person" > >> please talk with me about how I can get > >> this car fixed ASAP an starting when warm? > >> > >> ((( Really low on funds, I have a new ignition > >> Switch for this 1981 Vanagon that I could > >> take back for the $27 refund. Are there any > >> relays (what kind?) or wires you suggest > >> I buy tonight?. > >> > >> Do you have any helpful diagrams or > >> instructions you could forward to me? > >> > >> I so wish I knew how to do this, so I could > >> do it myself. Or be helpful to a mechanical.))) > >> > >> > >> > >> Thank you! > >> > >> > >> Still hopeful . . . and distessed, > >> > >> L > >> > >> > >> > >> >


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