Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 10:37:18 -0400
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: NVC Re: VW gave diesel drivers what they wanted! Tailpipe
Emissions!
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
The net effect is the type of emissions. Reduced efficiency means in
increase in the carbon footprint. A little CO2 won't kill you. A little NOx
will. If increasing the efficiency increases the creation and release of
harmful compounds such as NOx that is a problem and that is the main issue
here. NOx is on the radar in any area with air quality issues. These areas
have regulations for most fuel burning appliances including furnaces,
boilers, and water heaters. NOx is the major reason that vehicle
modifications are frowned upon. Most anything you do to increase power or
performance is going effect the NOx production. Even changing tire sizes and
gearing changes the emissions characteristics under load.
Being familiar with many different vehicles, VW has always tried to cheap
out on emissions controls. These vehicles probably should have had the urea
injection systems that many other 2007 and later Diesels have to reduce the
NOx.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Angus Gordon
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 9:22 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: NVC Re: VW gave diesel drivers what they wanted!
Actually James makes a very valid point, in that both fuel efficiency and
tailpipe emissions must be considered. If VW cuts tailpipe emissions in
terms of PPM at the expense of fuel economy, what is the net effect?
Consideration should be given to measuring emissions output per mile, along
with minimal fuel use. That would be something useful.
Angus
> On Oct 1, 2015, at 3:10 PM, SDF ( aka ;jim lahey' - Scott )
<scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> wrote:
>
> You could work for VW since you are so skilled at Justifying illegality !
> "We're just giving them what they want ! ' ..and hey ...if we have
> to trick the regulators a little to do that ...that's ok.
>
> That would be an interesting poll :
> what portion of VW diesel owners bought their car largely because
> they are suppossidly 'clean' and not environmentally so harmful ?
>
> or ...of the 3 biggies .....fuel economy, power/driveability and
> environmental correctness..
> what wight would they give to each category ?
>
> I suspect that joe average consumer is concerned first with their own
> personal benefit, and less so about the larger environmental picture.
> < lol...and that is what is taught subtly and pervasively throughout
> Consumerism ..it's all about what you can get for yourself. >
>
> In Portland OR, just on the tv news the other night ..
> a diesel car owner found a note on his windshield in the morning
> ...blasting him for driving a polluting car.
> This is 'So Portland' was the guy's reaction.
> Scott
>
>> On 10/1/2015 9:29 AM, James wrote:
>> The opposite argument to this is that they did it for the faithful VW
loving diesel owner.
>> Let me explain this alternate argument.
>>
>> If you have a VW diesel, you probably value its fuel economy and power
most - not many people outside of the LA and Frankfurt 'smog basins' or the
EPA care that much about NOx. By running with this 'trick' software, VW
gave owners the best of both worlds - a car that will pass emissions tests
as required by governments, AND a car that gets fabulous fuel economy and
great power in real-world driving.
>>
>> I know very few VW diesel owners who boast about their car's low
pollution numbers. I know a lot of VW diesel owners who boast about their
car's power and exceptional fuel economy - about how they get even better
fuel mileage than the EPA/Transport Canada estimates.
>>
>> In that sense, VW was just giving its faithful diesel owners EXACTLY what
they wanted.
>>
>> Pity that what VW diesel drivers wanted was technically impossible, and
the VW solution to give it to them was thus illegal.
>>
>>
>> James
>> Ottawa, ON
>>
>>> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 13:31:43 -1000
>>> From: scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM
>>> Subject: Re: NVC Re: VW, honour, and culture
>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>
>>> it's a big deal because....
>>>
>>> 3. IT WAS INTENTIONAL DECEPTION.
>>> they tricked everyone ..apparently intentionally ...the faithful
>>> VW-loving owner...
>>>
>>
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