Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2015 09:53:23 -0500
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Oil Pump Replacement.
In-Reply-To: <CAP_YzpJ-5n3dBbce=mNuujHc1eOf0r5fcZ76mznRzwhvRq+VmA@mail.gmail.com>
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I know this is a delayed response but check out some comments below.
Hope this helps,
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Tyler Hardison [mailto:tyler@seraph-net.net]
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2015 9:45 PM
To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
Subject: Re: Oil Pump Replacement.
Just going on a hunch at this point. My lifters go flat when I'm running for long periods on the highway (never exceeding 55 mph). When I pull into my next stop the valve lifters are noticeably noisy.
I need to get an actual oil pressure gauge.
No other engine benefits from oil pressure and temperature gauges as the Waterboxer.
No knocking or clunking. She runs very smooth when the conditions are right.
The engine does not groan under load.
Again, haven't split the case to measure bearing clearances. ;-)
How do I check the pump inlet screen? This seems like a possibility.
The pump inlet screen can only be serviced by a complete engine teardown.
The valve cover gaskets were just cork as they should be..
Have not tested oil pressure.. need a gauge for that. ;-)
Engine temp does make a difference. If I'm sitting in traffic for long periods and the oil/water temp is rising, I do notice the lifters getting noticeably noisier. The #1 thing I notice is the long running periods at 55..
I'm running 20w50.. I've considered running 10w60 or straight 50..
but.. eh.. 10w is thinner at top temperature and seems to defeat the purpose.. but then I wonder if the oil pump clearances change as the engine heats up.. or if it is the bearings heating up and changing shape...
For multi weight oil viscosity the low or "W" number refers to the viscosity at 40C, the higher number is the reference at 100C. At low speeds the oil temp will somewhat follow the coolant temp. At high speed and loads the oil temp can get to 120C or even higher. This is the design flaw.
I do know that when I take the valve covers off, the drivers side of the engine has considerably more oil than the passenger side. But the driver side is where more of the lifter noise originates...
Oil should not really accumulate in the heads. If the crankcase is overfilled and the van is jacked up some oil will come back out. Over filling will raise the oil temp and reduce pressure both by the excess heating and foaming. Proper level is between the marks. The top mark is not the full mark. It is the maximum do not exceed no matter what mark.
Ideas? thoughts?
On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 5:20 PM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> wrote:
> How low is your oil pressure? Are there any knocking or clunking noises? Does the engine groan under load? If your pressure is really low due to excessive bearing clearance more oil will not help. On older tired engines oil pressure can also be a problem due to the pump inlet screen being clogged with debris or my favorite silicone type sealers used on valve cover gaskets. Have you tested the oil pressure with a gauge? What is it cold, when does it drop? Does engine temperature or load make a difference? Are you sure you even have a problem?
>
> Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
> Behalf Of Tyler Hardison
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 10:22 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Oil Pump Replacement.
>
> So to be clear, I'm adding the higher volume pump to keep the engine going for a few more months.
>
> I'm still saving for the motor replacement next year. :)
>
> On Thursday, November 5, 2015, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Bearing wear is really a symptom of something else going on. I have
>> seen low oil pressure due to bad rod bearings, cam shaft bearings
>> disintegrating and the oil overheating. The most common cause of low
>> oil pressure on the water boxer is the case being shot. Many
>> rebuilders or local shops completely miss this. When the engine gets
>> hot not only does the oil pressure go down due the lower viscosity
>> but the case expands and the main bearing become loser causing oil
>> pressure to be lost inside. When really bad you can feel them under
>> load, sort of a low speed rumble or groan. On a tired engine an
>> oversized pump may just add to the leaks and oil burning due to the
>> increased volume. When the tolerances are not there you will more flow but not always more pressure.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
>> <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Stuart MacMillan
>> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:04 PM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM <javascript:;>
>> Subject: Re: Oil Pump Replacement.
>>
>> Yes, the question is why do you want to replace it? Trying to fix
>> low oil pressure with a new or bigger pump won't solve the underlying
>> problem for long--bearing wear.
>>
>> Stuart
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
>> <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of SDF ( aka ;jim lahey' - Scott )
>> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 5:28 PM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM <javascript:;>
>> Subject: Re: Oil Pump Replacement.
>>
>> yes, on all three types of engines that come in vanagons.
>>
>> I've never believed in replacing oil pumps myself much tho.
>>
>> perhaps a larger/higher performance one once in a great while.
>>
>> scott
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/5/2015 2:46 PM, Tyler Hardison wrote:
>> > Can the oil pump be replaced with the engine in place?
>> >
>> > --t
>> >
>>
