Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 21:19:54 -0500
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Since we've been talking starters recently on Vanagon
list.....
In-Reply-To: <CAHTkEuJhjKK5BJANVYhH+AM063yURT9pqakLgkZ5iNq4u-SCsQ@mail.gmail.com>
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprag_clutch
Here is a link with information on the sprag clutch. Check out the link for information on a Bendix drive. The VW starter does not use a Bendix. Ford was probably among the last to use Bendix drives for starters. The giveaway detail is the use of a starter solenoid mounted somewhere on the firewall or fender. Bendix starter drives are also common on small engines like snow blowers and stuff as they are very simple.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Don Hanson
Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 9:07 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Since we've been talking starters recently on Vanagon list.....
OK, I didn't know that starters had slipper-clutches.... It must be that, or something to do with the Bendix (do they still call em that?) spring.
I'll give that a good cleaning soon, when I send off my cherished 5sp for a long overdue rebuild. Thanks everyone.
On Dec 9, 2015 3:06 PM, "Dennis Haynes" <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> wrote:
> When the starter cranks the engine a typical cranking speed is around
> 70 rpm. For the brief moment after the engine starts, you release the
> key, and the solenoid-starter gear retracts and clears the flywheel
> gear the starter gear gets overdriven by the engine at many times the
> cranking speed. So that the starter gear does not get broken off or
> the motor destroyed from centrifugal forces there is a one-way clutch
> driving the starter gear. If this assembly is dry, corroded, or
> otherwise messed up you may get that awful noise. When it really goes
> bad it could seize or fail to turn the engine during cranking. When
> you turn the key and the starter turns fast without the engine this is usually the problem.
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
> Behalf Of Don Hanson
> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 10:26 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Since we've been talking starters recently on Vanagon list.....
>
> I have a starter mystery sound that's been happening since I swapped
> in my ABA block hybrid inline VW motor about 3yrs ago...I didn't
> change any of the wiring from the original 1.8 liter rabbit/Jetta/fox
> motor and that one didn't make this odd noise sometimes when the
> motor is started...84 van, 93 ABA jetta block with 92 digifant 8 valve
> head and 5sp manual transmission....mounted using vanagon diesel stuff....
>
> Here's the story...when I release the ignition switch after the
> motor catches and the starter has done it's job....it does seem to
> crank over completely normally...it lets out this strange kinda
> honking squelch noise...lasts about 1/4 second and nothing else
> happens...the van runs normally and the next time I start it, it may
> again emit the weird noise ....but sometimes it doesn't make that
> noise...."Honking Squelch" is the best I can do for a
> description....It sounds similar to what a ping pong ball does when
> you push it down onto the pingpong table with your paddle......
>
> First time I fired it up after my swap, I thought..."crap, I did
> something wrong with the starter...gotta remove the motor and see what
> that is."....Well, I also forgot the pilot bearing, so I had the motor
> out again in a couple of days to install that and a new output shaft
> seal....and I could not find any fault with the starter......So I
> re-installed it all and again, I still get that strange squelching
> binding honking noise, sometimes.....
>
> I figured, at the time of the second install, with the noise
> unchanged........."OK, I am off to the desert anyhow, for 2
> months....If that starter breaks, I will just bump start till I get
> another one and stick that in........but it's been starting just fine,
> other than the weird noise, for over 3yrs now.....
>
> I thought...."Worn bushing" or something, but I expected that I'd
> have problems, PDQ....when a starter makes a noise like that, it can't
> be right...
>
> Anyone care to make a guess as to what might be causing that noise? I
> am just curious now....it has not affected the starting of the van now
> for about 65k miles, but it's still there......It is a "Wrong"
> sound....It sounds like it shouldn't be there, like it must be hurting
> something.....but nothing dire has happened...it just keeps honking
> along, starting every time but perhaps 50% of starts I have come with
> a post script.....that honk after I let loose of the key and the
> starter stops cranking.....with it's frequent sonic comment after a van start.........
> Don Hanson
>