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Date:         Thu, 10 Dec 2015 00:24:56 -0500
Reply-To:     Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Since we've been talking starters recently on Vanagon
              list.....
Comments: To: Jeff Schwaia <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <014201d132f4$945a7420$bd0f5c60$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

With a Bendix drive there is no solenoid to push the gear out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bendix_drive

dennis

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Schwaia Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 9:44 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Since we've been talking starters recently on Vanagon list.....

Actually, the VW starter does use a Bendix (no Sprag clutch) to engage the starter to the flywheel.

I've replaced quite a few solenoids over the years and it definitely works to engage the Bendix drive.

Cheers,

Jeff

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Haynes Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 6:20 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Since we've been talking starters recently on Vanagon list.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprag_clutch

Here is a link with information on the sprag clutch. Check out the link for information on a Bendix drive. The VW starter does not use a Bendix. Ford was probably among the last to use Bendix drives for starters. The giveaway detail is the use of a starter solenoid mounted somewhere on the firewall or fender. Bendix starter drives are also common on small engines like snow blowers and stuff as they are very simple.

Dennis

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Don Hanson Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 9:07 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Since we've been talking starters recently on Vanagon list.....

OK, I didn't know that starters had slipper-clutches.... It must be that, or something to do with the Bendix (do they still call em that?) spring. I'll give that a good cleaning soon, when I send off my cherished 5sp for a long overdue rebuild. Thanks everyone. On Dec 9, 2015 3:06 PM, "Dennis Haynes" <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> wrote:

> When the starter cranks the engine a typical cranking speed is around > 70 rpm. For the brief moment after the engine starts, you release the > key, and the solenoid-starter gear retracts and clears the flywheel > gear the starter gear gets overdriven by the engine at many times the > cranking speed. So that the starter gear does not get broken off or > the motor destroyed from centrifugal forces there is a one-way clutch > driving the starter gear. If this assembly is dry, corroded, or > otherwise messed up you may get that awful noise. When it really goes

> bad it could seize or fail to turn the engine during cranking. When > you turn the key and the starter turns fast without the engine this is usually the problem. > > Dennis > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On > Behalf Of Don Hanson > Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 10:26 AM > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Subject: Since we've been talking starters recently on Vanagon list..... > > I have a starter mystery sound that's been happening since I swapped > in my ABA block hybrid inline VW motor about 3yrs ago...I didn't > change any of the wiring from the original 1.8 liter rabbit/Jetta/fox > motor and that one didn't make this odd noise sometimes when the > motor is started...84 van, 93 ABA jetta block with 92 digifant 8 valve

> head and 5sp manual transmission....mounted using vanagon diesel stuff.... > > Here's the story...when I release the ignition switch after the > motor catches and the starter has done it's job....it does seem to > crank over completely normally...it lets out this strange kinda > honking squelch noise...lasts about 1/4 second and nothing else > happens...the van runs normally and the next time I start it, it may > again emit the weird noise ....but sometimes it doesn't make that > noise...."Honking Squelch" is the best I can do for a > description....It sounds similar to what a ping pong ball does when > you push it down onto the pingpong table with your paddle...... > > First time I fired it up after my swap, I thought..."crap, I did > something wrong with the starter...gotta remove the motor and see what

> that is."....Well, I also forgot the pilot bearing, so I had the motor

> out again in a couple of days to install that and a new output shaft > seal....and I could not find any fault with the starter......So I > re-installed it all and again, I still get that strange squelching > binding honking noise, sometimes..... > > I figured, at the time of the second install, with the noise > unchanged........."OK, I am off to the desert anyhow, for 2 > months....If that starter breaks, I will just bump start till I get > another one and stick that in........but it's been starting just fine,

> other than the weird noise, for over 3yrs now..... > > I thought...."Worn bushing" or something, but I expected that I'd > have problems, PDQ....when a starter makes a noise like that, it can't

> be right... > > Anyone care to make a guess as to what might be causing that noise? I > am just curious now....it has not affected the starting of the van now

> for about 65k miles, but it's still there......It is a "Wrong" > sound....It sounds like it shouldn't be there, like it must be hurting

> something.....but nothing dire has happened...it just keeps honking > along, starting every time but perhaps 50% of starts I have come with > a post script.....that honk after I let loose of the key and the > starter stops cranking.....with it's frequent sonic comment after a van start......... > Don Hanson >


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