Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 08:48:57 -0800
Reply-To: Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dreaded water jacket head gasket leak strikes
In-Reply-To: <5678D865.3070900@turbovans.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Thanks Scott and everyone else,
This discussion confirms my opinion the WBX simply cannot be rebuilt successfully by an amateur (at least this amateur is not going to waste his time on it). From the factory they were okay and had a decent life, but rebuilt, not so much. After reading all the tips, I'm going to put two bottles of Subaru conditioner in and hope for one more year and put the Subaru in next winter. It's only dripping slightly, so I might luck out.
Son's wife has a well maintained '96 Outback she bought in '99. 130k miles now, good compression and good oil analysis, so it's going in as is ASAP (or maybe we'll replace the head gaskets). It's a bit of a beater and she was going to keep driving it for a while, but it had the rear glass busted out by a smash and grabber last week. Given $500 for the glass, $300 for a cracked windshield, and $90 for 2016 tabs, she leased a new Jetta! VW "sign and drive" is a wonderful thing. It's now in my shop for engine extraction. It will live on.
Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and Happy New Year!
Stuart
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of SDF ( aka ;jim lahey' - Scott )
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 8:58 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Dreaded water jacket head gasket leak strikes
How many people check, and pay careful attention to how much the outer water rubber gasket is commpressed ?
Very very important to do that,
especially if putting on a 'new-used' or otherwise different head that was on there.
I am for 3.5 mm of rubber water gasket compression.
Check that dimension by installing the head, with metal rings on top of the barrels, but no rubber gasket.
then measure that gap. I have seen cases where the rubber gasket is pinched too tight ...
and , and in 6 months or so, it's likely that gasket will split and leak ...
Or if the gap is too big ...only the sealant is doing the sealing, and not proper compression of the rubber gasket.
I have seen a brand new AMC head built poorly so that the head was tilted on the block ..
like 2.5 mm at one end, and 4 mm at the other end.
that was on the very first waterboxer head gasket job I did in the 90's.
I really tried to do it right, with a new head, german head gaskets etc.
it lasted less than a year.
I did some serious research to find out what might have been the issue.
Finally..after working this mystery for a month or two, a VW dealer technician tells me..
you put the head on without the rubber gasket, and if it's not the right gap, you ***try another head *** ...!!!
which is insane since interchangeable standardized parts were a big deal around 1920 in car production.
Buick or someone like that even took 3 cars to an Auto Expo thing in New York around then ..
tore all 3 cars appart, scrambled the parts, and put all 3 back totogether and they all ran ...
and that was a very big deal at the time.
Rather a joke 'head gasket' system ...
how far that rubber gasket is compressed depends on the 'step distance'
between the flat bottom of the head, and the part where the heads sit on the metal rings and barrels.
Anyway ..if not paying careful attention to how much the outer rubber water gasket is compressed...
you're just shootin' in the dark .
I got that dimension by cutting an old rubber gasket apart, and measureing how thick it is where it's compressed..
3.5 mm looked about right. ..........and that seems to work.
last paragraph ...lol...one time on a van of my own, I rented it to friends to go to Burning Man ..
they are all packed and loaded...and one head starts to leak.
The rubber gasket was not being compressed enough. I did an all-nighter...
pulled it apart....( the metal rings are 1 mm think if I recall correctly ) ..
I dug through a 25 year accumulation of left over VW gasket stuff, and found exactly two metal head sealing rings that were half a mm thick..
no idea where they came from ..
but they did the trick perfectly and that engine ran fine without leaking for years.
Imagine how many Vanagon waterboxer head gasket job have been done..
probably about 3 or 4 times as many vanagon as there are in existence.
but we love the dang things anyway.
Scott
On 12/20/2015 7:54 AM, J Stewart wrote:
> I had no luck with the Suby conditioner, but then my gasket was torn.
> I also paid a lot less than the $30.00 this Amazon ad claims is the
> list price, as I recall at the local Subaru dealer it was $2.50 a
> bottle. The FIRST head gasket replacement on mine lasted 300
> miles-yes, I said the first. I was not happy that at 300 miles I
> developed another leak, this time around one of the head nuts. I was
> told by a couple of respected VW gurus that re-using a head may not
> work, as cracks can happen around the head stud passages. I purchased
> a "used" head from Go Westy for $350.00. They said it was used with
> very low mileage but it sure looked brand new to me. The second head
> gasket/head replacement went a LOT faster than the first one, lol.
> That repair lasted at least 5K miles. I say at least because I then
> sold the van. As far as I know it is still going strong. Jeff
>
