Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 10:56:02 -0700
Reply-To: OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Dodged a bullet -- blowed the oil filter right off Why,
I'll tell you BTW
In-Reply-To: <5682C371.3070107@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
According to the WIX LookUp the Correct Filter for a Saab 900 would be
a 51348XP which has 3/4-16 Threads ~
According to the Bosch LookUp the Correct Filter for a Saab 900 would be
a D3421 which has 3/4-16 Threads ~
According to The Bosch LookUp the Correct Filter for a Vanagon 2.1L would
Also Be a D3421 ~
On 29 Dec , 2015, at 10:31 AM, Rocket J Squirrel wrote:
> Okay, Chris tencentlife sent me a fresh copy of the oil cooler kit
> installation instructions. For the filter, it says,
>
> "The filter to fit any year Saab 900 or 9000 will fit and has the
> correct specs for the wbx."
>
> It was the counterman at the local FLAPS who determined that the Bosch
> 3300 is what I'm looking for.
>
> Right threads or no?
>
>
> On 12/28/2015 08:17 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
>
> > So let's get back to your failure. You have an oil pressure gauge. Do
> > you use it?
>
> I do. And I was aware that oil pressures were higher than normal with
> this summer oil in the engine.
>
> > The most important time for using one is just after start
> > up and during warm up. As you drove off did you notice unusually high
> > oil pressure?
>
> Sure I did, but no more unusual than the morning temps I've been seeing
> this winter -- with that thick summer oil in the engine.
>
> > Is your gauge capable of reading abnormally high
> > pressure or does it only go to 70psi? I choose the 150 psi gauges
> > for a reason.
>
> It's a 150 psi gauge. I confess that I wasn't watching the oil pressure
> gauge when I pulled out onto the street, I was dealing with icy roads
> and oncoming traffic, which drew my attention. So I can't say what it said.
>
> It's when I do things like this that I realize that the only reason I've
> managed to live to the age of 65 must have more to do with luck than brains.
>
> --
> Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott
> 1984 Westfalia, auto trans,
> Bend, Ore.
>
> On 12/28/2015 08:17 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
>> 3/4-16 is the thread size you want.
>>
>> Sorry Dennis
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List
>> [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Haynes Sent:
>> Monday, December 28, 2015 11:15 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: Dodged a bullet -- blowed the oil filter right off Why,
>> I'll tell you
>>
>> I had limited time before but I wanted to get that wrong oil filter
>> out there so all can stop wondering. How or why did I go here? This
>> is not the first time nor the first vehicle I have seen this happen
>> to. It is an error more common than one would expect. There are a
>> bunch of oil filter/engine combinations that seem to work but under
>> some conditions will fail. So I looked up the two filter numbers you
>> provided and they both have the 20mm thread. You say this was
>> recommended to you. Is that in writing? Imagine that failure causing
>> an engine failure or worse an accident, fire, or environmental
>> concern. As for oil filter sandwich adapters they usually use the
>> same thread on both ends, the goal is to fit between the engine and
>> the filter using the same filter.
>>
>> So let's get back to your failure. You have an oil pressure gauge. Do
>> you use it? The most important time for using one is just after start
>> up and during warm up. As you drove off did you notice unusually high
>> oil pressure? Is your gauge capable of reading abnormally high
>> pressure or does it only go to 70psi? I choose the 150 psi gauges
>> for a reason. Watching cold oil pressure is sometimes more important
>> than hot oil pressure, especially if a relief valve fails. Here is a
>> weird one! Oil rises and water sinks to the bottom. So if you have an
>> engine with a lot of condensation in the crankcase (it happens) in
>> really cold weather the oil pump inlet may be blocked with ice. No
>> oil pressure! The old beetle engines had the screen designed to pull
>> down out of the way for this in addition in case they were clogged
>> with dirt. I have seem more engine damage or other failures from cold
>> weather operation than you can imagine. I've seen broken pump shafts,
>> seals actually pushed out, spun bearings, etc. And not just on
>> Volkswagens! Keep in mind this is not full time work for me. After
>> the filter went lose you would have also seen the pressure gauge
>> fluctuate long before the total oil loss. The oil light did its job.
>> The later vans with the dynamic oil pressure warning system may have
>> even given an earlier warning looking for a higher oil pressure above
>> 2,000 rpm. The buzzer would also get your attention. This is why
>> manufacturers don't always give us gauges.
>>
>> Now let's look at some engineering options. Since you have an 84 you
>> don't have any original oil cooler. The only reason you need a short
>> filter is to clear the exhaust. At some point the exhaust has or will
>> need to be replaced. Using the engine pipes from the 2.1L will allow
>> the normal oil filter. The 2 engine pipes, collector, and J-pipe will
>> mate to the 1.9 catalyst and muffler. The GoWesty stainless pipes can
>> be a reasonable cost longer life option. I'm done with Dansk, this is
>> all I install now. Ultimately you can replace the rear engine bracket
>> and go 2.1L exhaust all the way. You could also do an oil filter
>> relocation. Replace the filter with an adapter to hoses and mount the
>> filter on a stand-alone mount. Use an in line thermostat for the
>> cooler. This can allow an even larger filter.
>>
>> Why think of filter size? Filters are designed to work in a certain
>> flow range. While most think a smaller filter is adequate if there is
>> not a problematic pressure drop they are missing a major point. A
>> smaller filter means the oil has to pass through at a higher
>> velocity. Filters stop some dirt on the surface but also through the
>> depth of the media. Faster flow means more of the dirt can get pushed
>> through. Look at furnace or air conditioning filters and note the
>> dirt on the filtered side. Also, the smaller filter will have less
>> capacity for accumulation. Not a super issue for our engines but
>> something to consider.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List
>> [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Rocket J Squirrel
>> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 9:41 PM To:
>> vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Dodged a bullet -- blowed the
>> oil filter right off Why, I'll tell you
>>
>> Okay, so can someone point me to a website that provides threading
>> and dimensional specs for our kinds of filters? I need a filter about
>> the same diameter as the stock 1.9L filter, about an inch or so
>> shorter, to accomodate the reduced space that the banjo fitting takes
>> up, and has the right threading -- whatever it is that I'm looking
>> for.
>>
>> It's been a long time since I installed the oil cooler kit. I don't
>> recall whether the fitting that goes between the engine and the oil
>> filter has its own male and female threaded bits, and whether the
>> sticky-out part that the filter mates with is the same threading as
>> what comes out of the engine. But I'm pretty sure that tencentlife
>> recommended the Bosch 3300 and crosses.
>>
>> Anyone got an email for tencentlife?
>>
>> -- Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott 1984 Westfalia, auto trans, Bend,
>> Ore.
>>
>> On 12/28/2015 06:22 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
>>> The reason the filter blew off the threads is because it is the
>>> wrong one. The vanagon and many VW's of that error used a 3/4"
>>> thread. This is common to many vehicles back then especially Ford
>>> and some Chrysler. The filters you are using have a 20mm thread.
>>> Yes it almost fits but it is a very loose fit and the thread pitch
>>> is wrong. 20mm threads are common on many GM and some European
>>> vehicles. Now go get a filter at least with the correct thread.
>>>
>>> Dennis
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List
>>> [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Rocket J Squirrel
>>> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 7:01 PM To:
>>> vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Dodged a bullet -- blowed the
>>> oil filter right off
>>>
>>> Okay, so it's my fault, but I think I lucked out.
>>>
>>> As temperatures drop down the freezing, and below, I change my
>>> engine oil to 10-40, a thinner grade. But this winter I got lazy. I
>>> admit it, I got lazy.
>>>
>>> Well, one cold morning last week I started the van and trundled
>>> down the street to go downtown, and was about a 1/2 mile from home
>>> when I noticed that the idiot light for the oil pressure was lit.
>>> And the aftermarket oil pressure gauge I installed a few years ago
>>> was at zero. They don't share the same sender or anything so I knew
>>> it was serious.
>>>
>>> I pulled off the main road and got out and looked behind the van
>>> and sure enough, a trail of oil behind me leading up to a small
>>> puddle under the engine.
>>>
>>> Triple-A flatbedded the van to Gary's Ole Volks Home here in Bend,
>>> and after an hour he called me and said that the oil filter had
>>> plain blowed off.
>>>
>>> So here's what happened: at these low temperatures, I reckon that
>>> the thicker summer oil was as thick as pine sap -- maybe amber --
>>> resulting in very high oil pressure.
>>>
>>> The oil filter was not the stock one that I use. I installed a
>>> tencentlife oil cooler kit a few years ago, and it uses a banjo
>>> fitting that goes between the filter and the engine for oil send
>>> and receive (thermostat in there, too). The stock filter is too
>>> long to fit and he recommends a Bosch 3300, which I have been
>>> using.
>>>
>>> But the last time I replaced the filter, when I switched from
>>> winter to summer oil, the auto parts store was out of stock on the
>>> Bosch, and they offered the Wix. I never heard of Wix, but the guy
>>> said it was a good brand, so hey.
>>>
>>> Well, the mechanic was consternated by the shorter filter, said it
>>> was the wrong one, and that the threads looked like pipe threads. I
>>> picked up a new Bosch on my way over and took at look at the Wix,
>>> comparing it to the Bosch, and the threads in the Wix looked pretty
>>> poor.
>>>
>>> So I think I lucked out here. That high oil pressure was gonna
>>> blow out something, I'm just glad that it was a $6 oil filter.
>>> Otherwise, $75 for the work, nothing (other than subscription to
>>> Triple-A) for the tow. It could have been a lot worse.
>>>
>>> Engine sounds fine, I hope no damage was done.
>>>
>>> And what's the lesson, kids? Don't skip maintenance. And distrust
>>> Wix filters.
>>>
>>> -- Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott 1984 Westfalia, auto trans,
>>> Bend, Ore.
>>>
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