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Date:         Tue, 29 Dec 2015 12:49:03 -0500
Reply-To:     Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Dodged a bullet -- blowed the oil filter right off Why,
              I'll tell you BTW
Comments: To: Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I’ll do a look up later. I doubt that is a correct fitment.

Sent from my Windows 10 phone,

Dennis

From: Rocket J Squirrel<mailto:camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 12:31 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM<mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> Subject: Re: Dodged a bullet -- blowed the oil filter right off Why, I'll tell you BTW

Okay, Chris tencentlife sent me a fresh copy of the oil cooler kit installation instructions. For the filter, it says,

"The filter to fit any year Saab 900 or 9000 will fit and has the correct specs for the wbx."

It was the counterman at the local FLAPS who determined that the Bosch 3300 is what I'm looking for.

Right threads or no?

On 12/28/2015 08:17 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:

> So let's get back to your failure. You have an oil pressure gauge. Do > you use it?

I do. And I was aware that oil pressures were higher than normal with this summer oil in the engine.

> The most important time for using one is just after start > up and during warm up. As you drove off did you notice unusually high > oil pressure?

Sure I did, but no more unusual than the morning temps I've been seeing this winter -- with that thick summer oil in the engine.

> Is your gauge capable of reading abnormally high > pressure or does it only go to 70psi? I choose the 150 psi gauges > for a reason.

It's a 150 psi gauge. I confess that I wasn't watching the oil pressure gauge when I pulled out onto the street, I was dealing with icy roads and oncoming traffic, which drew my attention. So I can't say what it said.

It's when I do things like this that I realize that the only reason I've managed to live to the age of 65 must have more to do with luck than brains.

-- Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott 1984 Westfalia, auto trans, Bend, Ore.

On 12/28/2015 08:17 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote: > 3/4-16 is the thread size you want. > > Sorry Dennis > > > -----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List > [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Haynes Sent: > Monday, December 28, 2015 11:15 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Subject: Re: Dodged a bullet -- blowed the oil filter right off Why, > I'll tell you > > I had limited time before but I wanted to get that wrong oil filter > out there so all can stop wondering. How or why did I go here? This > is not the first time nor the first vehicle I have seen this happen > to. It is an error more common than one would expect. There are a > bunch of oil filter/engine combinations that seem to work but under > some conditions will fail. So I looked up the two filter numbers you > provided and they both have the 20mm thread. You say this was > recommended to you. Is that in writing? Imagine that failure causing > an engine failure or worse an accident, fire, or environmental > concern. As for oil filter sandwich adapters they usually use the > same thread on both ends, the goal is to fit between the engine and > the filter using the same filter. > > So let's get back to your failure. You have an oil pressure gauge. Do > you use it? The most important time for using one is just after start > up and during warm up. As you drove off did you notice unusually high > oil pressure? Is your gauge capable of reading abnormally high > pressure or does it only go to 70psi? I choose the 150 psi gauges > for a reason. Watching cold oil pressure is sometimes more important > than hot oil pressure, especially if a relief valve fails. Here is a > weird one! Oil rises and water sinks to the bottom. So if you have an > engine with a lot of condensation in the crankcase (it happens) in > really cold weather the oil pump inlet may be blocked with ice. No > oil pressure! The old beetle engines had the screen designed to pull > down out of the way for this in addition in case they were clogged > with dirt. I have seem more engine damage or other failures from cold > weather operation than you can imagine. I've seen broken pump shafts, > seals actually pushed out, spun bearings, etc. And not just on > Volkswagens! Keep in mind this is not full time work for me. After > the filter went lose you would have also seen the pressure gauge > fluctuate long before the total oil loss. The oil light did its job. > The later vans with the dynamic oil pressure warning system may have > even given an earlier warning looking for a higher oil pressure above > 2,000 rpm. The buzzer would also get your attention. This is why > manufacturers don't always give us gauges. > > Now let's look at some engineering options. Since you have an 84 you > don't have any original oil cooler. The only reason you need a short > filter is to clear the exhaust. At some point the exhaust has or will > need to be replaced. Using the engine pipes from the 2.1L will allow > the normal oil filter. The 2 engine pipes, collector, and J-pipe will > mate to the 1.9 catalyst and muffler. The GoWesty stainless pipes can > be a reasonable cost longer life option. I'm done with Dansk, this is > all I install now. Ultimately you can replace the rear engine bracket > and go 2.1L exhaust all the way. You could also do an oil filter > relocation. Replace the filter with an adapter to hoses and mount the > filter on a stand-alone mount. Use an in line thermostat for the > cooler. This can allow an even larger filter. > > Why think of filter size? Filters are designed to work in a certain > flow range. While most think a smaller filter is adequate if there is > not a problematic pressure drop they are missing a major point. A > smaller filter means the oil has to pass through at a higher > velocity. Filters stop some dirt on the surface but also through the > depth of the media. Faster flow means more of the dirt can get pushed > through. Look at furnace or air conditioning filters and note the > dirt on the filtered side. Also, the smaller filter will have less > capacity for accumulation. Not a super issue for our engines but > something to consider. > > Dennis > > > > > ----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List > [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Rocket J Squirrel > Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 9:41 PM To: > vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Dodged a bullet -- blowed the > oil filter right off Why, I'll tell you > > Okay, so can someone point me to a website that provides threading > and dimensional specs for our kinds of filters? I need a filter about > the same diameter as the stock 1.9L filter, about an inch or so > shorter, to accomodate the reduced space that the banjo fitting takes > up, and has the right threading -- whatever it is that I'm looking > for. > > It's been a long time since I installed the oil cooler kit. I don't > recall whether the fitting that goes between the engine and the oil > filter has its own male and female threaded bits, and whether the > sticky-out part that the filter mates with is the same threading as > what comes out of the engine. But I'm pretty sure that tencentlife > recommended the Bosch 3300 and crosses. > > Anyone got an email for tencentlife? > > -- Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott 1984 Westfalia, auto trans, Bend, > Ore. > > On 12/28/2015 06:22 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote: >> The reason the filter blew off the threads is because it is the >> wrong one. The vanagon and many VW's of that error used a 3/4" >> thread. This is common to many vehicles back then especially Ford >> and some Chrysler. The filters you are using have a 20mm thread. >> Yes it almost fits but it is a very loose fit and the thread pitch >> is wrong. 20mm threads are common on many GM and some European >> vehicles. Now go get a filter at least with the correct thread. >> >> Dennis >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List >> [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Rocket J Squirrel >> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 7:01 PM To: >> vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Dodged a bullet -- blowed the >> oil filter right off >> >> Okay, so it's my fault, but I think I lucked out. >> >> As temperatures drop down the freezing, and below, I change my >> engine oil to 10-40, a thinner grade. But this winter I got lazy. I >> admit it, I got lazy. >> >> Well, one cold morning last week I started the van and trundled >> down the street to go downtown, and was about a 1/2 mile from home >> when I noticed that the idiot light for the oil pressure was lit. >> And the aftermarket oil pressure gauge I installed a few years ago >> was at zero. They don't share the same sender or anything so I knew >> it was serious. >> >> I pulled off the main road and got out and looked behind the van >> and sure enough, a trail of oil behind me leading up to a small >> puddle under the engine. >> >> Triple-A flatbedded the van to Gary's Ole Volks Home here in Bend, >> and after an hour he called me and said that the oil filter had >> plain blowed off. >> >> So here's what happened: at these low temperatures, I reckon that >> the thicker summer oil was as thick as pine sap -- maybe amber -- >> resulting in very high oil pressure. >> >> The oil filter was not the stock one that I use. I installed a >> tencentlife oil cooler kit a few years ago, and it uses a banjo >> fitting that goes between the filter and the engine for oil send >> and receive (thermostat in there, too). The stock filter is too >> long to fit and he recommends a Bosch 3300, which I have been >> using. >> >> But the last time I replaced the filter, when I switched from >> winter to summer oil, the auto parts store was out of stock on the >> Bosch, and they offered the Wix. I never heard of Wix, but the guy >> said it was a good brand, so hey. >> >> Well, the mechanic was consternated by the shorter filter, said it >> was the wrong one, and that the threads looked like pipe threads. I >> picked up a new Bosch on my way over and took at look at the Wix, >> comparing it to the Bosch, and the threads in the Wix looked pretty >> poor. >> >> So I think I lucked out here. That high oil pressure was gonna >> blow out something, I'm just glad that it was a $6 oil filter. >> Otherwise, $75 for the work, nothing (other than subscription to >> Triple-A) for the tow. It could have been a lot worse. >> >> Engine sounds fine, I hope no damage was done. >> >> And what's the lesson, kids? Don't skip maintenance. And distrust >> Wix filters. >> >> -- Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott 1984 Westfalia, auto trans, >> Bend, Ore. >>


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