Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 18:12:35 -0800
Reply-To: Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Dodged a bullet -- blowed the oil filter right off Why,
I'll tell you BTW
In-Reply-To: <F8DAACB5-8C3B-4361-A134-4C706C3711D7@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
After insulting my intelligence with some rather nasty comments, Chris
"tencentlife" Corkin pointed out that "All Saab 900 and 9000 engines are
3/4"-16. A Saab 9-2X is neither a 900 nor a 9000," and that all the
information I needed to get the right filter was in the instruction
sheet for the oil cooler kit.
So what I guess what happened here is that the counterman at the FLAPS
gave me the recommended filter for a 9-2X when I requested a filter for
a 900/9000 and I've been driving around with the wrong size
threaded-filter all along.
If anyone wants to see the instruction sheet I can forward the pdf to them.
--
Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott
1984 Westfalia, auto trans,
Bend, Ore.
On 12/29/2015 02:43 PM, OlRivrRat wrote:
> Appears as though the Bosch 3300 does fit some Saabs > 05-06 9-2X
> that are Subaru powered & have a M20X1.5 Thread ~
>
>
> On 29 Dec , 2015, at 1:33 PM, Rocket J Squirrel wrote:
>
>> So the FLAPS counterman that originally said that the correct
>> filter for a Saab 900 would be a Bosch 3300 was inaccurate? That
>> might explain the problem. It was from that part number that I got
>> the cross to the WIX filter which was blowed off.
>>
>> -- Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott 1984 Westfalia, auto trans,
>> Bend, Ore.
>>
>> On 12/29/2015 09:56 AM, OlRivrRat wrote:
>>> According to the WIX LookUp the Correct Filter for a Saab 900
>>> would be
>>>
>>> a 51348XP which has 3/4-16 Threads ~
>>>
>>> According to the Bosch LookUp the Correct Filter for a Saab 900
>>> would be
>>>
>>> a D3421 which has 3/4-16 Threads ~
>>>
>>> According to The Bosch LookUp the Correct Filter for a Vanagon
>>> 2.1L would
>>>
>>> Also Be a D3421 ~
>>>
>>>
>>> On 29 Dec , 2015, at 10:31 AM, Rocket J Squirrel wrote:
>>>
>>>> Okay, Chris tencentlife sent me a fresh copy of the oil cooler
>>>> kit installation instructions. For the filter, it says,
>>>>
>>>> "The filter to fit any year Saab 900 or 9000 will fit and has
>>>> the correct specs for the wbx."
>>>>
>>>> It was the counterman at the local FLAPS who determined that
>>>> the Bosch 3300 is what I'm looking for.
>>>>
>>>> Right threads or no?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/28/2015 08:17 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So let's get back to your failure. You have an oil pressure
>>>>> gauge. Do you use it?
>>>>
>>>> I do. And I was aware that oil pressures were higher than
>>>> normal with this summer oil in the engine.
>>>>
>>>>> The most important time for using one is just after start up
>>>>> and during warm up. As you drove off did you notice unusually
>>>>> high oil pressure?
>>>>
>>>> Sure I did, but no more unusual than the morning temps I've
>>>> been seeing this winter -- with that thick summer oil in the
>>>> engine.
>>>>
>>>>> Is your gauge capable of reading abnormally high pressure or
>>>>> does it only go to 70psi? I choose the 150 psi gauges for a
>>>>> reason.
>>>>
>>>> It's a 150 psi gauge. I confess that I wasn't watching the oil
>>>> pressure gauge when I pulled out onto the street, I was dealing
>>>> with icy roads and oncoming traffic, which drew my attention.
>>>> So I can't say what it said.
>>>>
>>>> It's when I do things like this that I realize that the only
>>>> reason I've managed to live to the age of 65 must have more to
>>>> do with luck than brains.
>>>>
>>>> -- Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott 1984 Westfalia, auto
>>>> trans, Bend, Ore.
>>>>
>>>> On 12/28/2015 08:17 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
>>>>> 3/4-16 is the thread size you want.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry Dennis
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List
>>>>> [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Haynes
>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 11:15 PM To:
>>>>> vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Dodged a bullet --
>>>>> blowed the oil filter right off Why, I'll tell you
>>>>>
>>>>> I had limited time before but I wanted to get that wrong oil
>>>>> filter out there so all can stop wondering. How or why did I
>>>>> go here? This is not the first time nor the first vehicle I
>>>>> have seen this happen to. It is an error more common than one
>>>>> would expect. There are a bunch of oil filter/engine
>>>>> combinations that seem to work but under some conditions will
>>>>> fail. So I looked up the two filter numbers you provided and
>>>>> they both have the 20mm thread. You say this was recommended
>>>>> to you. Is that in writing? Imagine that failure causing an
>>>>> engine failure or worse an accident, fire, or environmental
>>>>> concern. As for oil filter sandwich adapters they usually use
>>>>> the same thread on both ends, the goal is to fit between the
>>>>> engine and the filter using the same filter.
>>>>>
>>>>> So let's get back to your failure. You have an oil pressure
>>>>> gauge. Do you use it? The most important time for using one
>>>>> is just after start up and during warm up. As you drove off
>>>>> did you notice unusually high oil pressure? Is your gauge
>>>>> capable of reading abnormally high pressure or does it only
>>>>> go to 70psi? I choose the 150 psi gauges for a reason.
>>>>> Watching cold oil pressure is sometimes more important than
>>>>> hot oil pressure, especially if a relief valve fails. Here
>>>>> is a weird one! Oil rises and water sinks to the bottom. So
>>>>> if you have an engine with a lot of condensation in the
>>>>> crankcase (it happens) in really cold weather the oil pump
>>>>> inlet may be blocked with ice. No oil pressure! The old
>>>>> beetle engines had the screen designed to pull down out of
>>>>> the way for this in addition in case they were clogged with
>>>>> dirt. I have seem more engine damage or other failures from
>>>>> cold weather operation than you can imagine. I've seen broken
>>>>> pump shafts, seals actually pushed out, spun bearings, etc.
>>>>> And not just on Volkswagens! Keep in mind this is not full
>>>>> time work for me. After the filter went lose you would have
>>>>> also seen the pressure gauge fluctuate long before the total
>>>>> oil loss. The oil light did its job. The later vans with the
>>>>> dynamic oil pressure warning system may have even given an
>>>>> earlier warning looking for a higher oil pressure above 2,000
>>>>> rpm. The buzzer would also get your attention. This is why
>>>>> manufacturers don't always give us gauges.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now let's look at some engineering options. Since you have an
>>>>> 84 you don't have any original oil cooler. The only reason
>>>>> you need a short filter is to clear the exhaust. At some
>>>>> point the exhaust has or will need to be replaced. Using the
>>>>> engine pipes from the 2.1L will allow the normal oil filter.
>>>>> The 2 engine pipes, collector, and J-pipe will mate to the
>>>>> 1.9 catalyst and muffler. The GoWesty stainless pipes can be
>>>>> a reasonable cost longer life option. I'm done with Dansk,
>>>>> this is all I install now. Ultimately you can replace the
>>>>> rear engine bracket and go 2.1L exhaust all the way. You
>>>>> could also do an oil filter relocation. Replace the filter
>>>>> with an adapter to hoses and mount the filter on a
>>>>> stand-alone mount. Use an in line thermostat for the cooler.
>>>>> This can allow an even larger filter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why think of filter size? Filters are designed to work in a
>>>>> certain flow range. While most think a smaller filter is
>>>>> adequate if there is not a problematic pressure drop they are
>>>>> missing a major point. A smaller filter means the oil has to
>>>>> pass through at a higher velocity. Filters stop some dirt on
>>>>> the surface but also through the depth of the media. Faster
>>>>> flow means more of the dirt can get pushed through. Look at
>>>>> furnace or air conditioning filters and note the dirt on the
>>>>> filtered side. Also, the smaller filter will have less
>>>>> capacity for accumulation. Not a super issue for our engines
>>>>> but something to consider.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List
>>>>> [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Rocket J
>>>>> Squirrel Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 9:41 PM To:
>>>>> vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Dodged a bullet --
>>>>> blowed the oil filter right off Why, I'll tell you
>>>>>
>>>>> Okay, so can someone point me to a website that provides
>>>>> threading and dimensional specs for our kinds of filters? I
>>>>> need a filter about the same diameter as the stock 1.9L
>>>>> filter, about an inch or so shorter, to accomodate the
>>>>> reduced space that the banjo fitting takes up, and has the
>>>>> right threading -- whatever it is that I'm looking for.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's been a long time since I installed the oil cooler kit. I
>>>>> don't recall whether the fitting that goes between the engine
>>>>> and the oil filter has its own male and female threaded bits,
>>>>> and whether the sticky-out part that the filter mates with is
>>>>> the same threading as what comes out of the engine. But I'm
>>>>> pretty sure that tencentlife recommended the Bosch 3300 and
>>>>> crosses.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone got an email for tencentlife?
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott 1984 Westfalia, auto
>>>>> trans, Bend, Ore.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/28/2015 06:22 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
>>>>>> The reason the filter blew off the threads is because it is
>>>>>> the wrong one. The vanagon and many VW's of that error used
>>>>>> a 3/4" thread. This is common to many vehicles back then
>>>>>> especially Ford and some Chrysler. The filters you are
>>>>>> using have a 20mm thread. Yes it almost fits but it is a
>>>>>> very loose fit and the thread pitch is wrong. 20mm threads
>>>>>> are common on many GM and some European vehicles. Now go
>>>>>> get a filter at least with the correct thread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List
>>>>>> [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Rocket J
>>>>>> Squirrel Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 7:01 PM To:
>>>>>> vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Dodged a bullet --
>>>>>> blowed the oil filter right off
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Okay, so it's my fault, but I think I lucked out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As temperatures drop down the freezing, and below, I change
>>>>>> my engine oil to 10-40, a thinner grade. But this winter I
>>>>>> got lazy. I admit it, I got lazy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, one cold morning last week I started the van and
>>>>>> trundled down the street to go downtown, and was about a
>>>>>> 1/2 mile from home when I noticed that the idiot light for
>>>>>> the oil pressure was lit. And the aftermarket oil pressure
>>>>>> gauge I installed a few years ago was at zero. They don't
>>>>>> share the same sender or anything so I knew it was
>>>>>> serious.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I pulled off the main road and got out and looked behind
>>>>>> the van and sure enough, a trail of oil behind me leading
>>>>>> up to a small puddle under the engine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Triple-A flatbedded the van to Gary's Ole Volks Home here
>>>>>> in Bend, and after an hour he called me and said that the
>>>>>> oil filter had plain blowed off.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So here's what happened: at these low temperatures, I
>>>>>> reckon that the thicker summer oil was as thick as pine sap
>>>>>> -- maybe amber -- resulting in very high oil pressure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The oil filter was not the stock one that I use. I
>>>>>> installed a tencentlife oil cooler kit a few years ago, and
>>>>>> it uses a banjo fitting that goes between the filter and
>>>>>> the engine for oil send and receive (thermostat in there,
>>>>>> too). The stock filter is too long to fit and he recommends
>>>>>> a Bosch 3300, which I have been using.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But the last time I replaced the filter, when I switched
>>>>>> from winter to summer oil, the auto parts store was out of
>>>>>> stock on the Bosch, and they offered the Wix. I never heard
>>>>>> of Wix, but the guy said it was a good brand, so hey.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, the mechanic was consternated by the shorter filter,
>>>>>> said it was the wrong one, and that the threads looked like
>>>>>> pipe threads. I picked up a new Bosch on my way over and
>>>>>> took at look at the Wix, comparing it to the Bosch, and the
>>>>>> threads in the Wix looked pretty poor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I think I lucked out here. That high oil pressure was
>>>>>> gonna blow out something, I'm just glad that it was a $6
>>>>>> oil filter. Otherwise, $75 for the work, nothing (other
>>>>>> than subscription to Triple-A) for the tow. It could have
>>>>>> been a lot worse.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Engine sounds fine, I hope no damage was done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And what's the lesson, kids? Don't skip maintenance. And
>>>>>> distrust Wix filters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott 1984 Westfalia, auto
>>>>>> trans, Bend, Ore.
>>>>>>
>>>
>
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