Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 06:57:52 -0800
Reply-To: Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Warming the oil in cold weather? Other options.
In-Reply-To: <FCB39F8C-1858-4B3C-A14D-43F862D811D9@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Hi Dean,
Righty-o. The oil filter is made a bit more difficult to get to due to
the oil cooler kit's hoses which are in the way a bit, so I can only get
a grip on the can with one of them wraparound expand-o-matic strap
wrenches, and can only turn it in bitty little increments at a time
until it spins freely. Nevertheless, I will be a manly man and do what
needs being done.
I wish someone around here rented a nice warm well-lit garage space by
the hour.
Mmmm - hot buttered rum.
--
Jack Elliott
1984 Westfalia, auto trans,
Bend, Ore.
Host and engineer, KPOV 88.9 FM
On 01/04/2016 10:10 PM, OlRivrRat wrote:
> RJS
>
> Certainly don't Envy Your needing to do anything under a Van' in the Conditions You have
>
> but Swapping an OilFilter on a Vanagon is PrettyMuch Usually A PieceOfCake ~ Just throw down
>
> an old piece of carpet or some cardboard or Both & GoForIt ~ Then go back in by the Fire with a
>
> Freshly Made HotButteredRum & Feel Good about Yourself for what You have done for your Van' ~
>
> ORR ~ DeanB
>
> On 4 Jan , 2016, at 7:21 PM, Rocket J Squirrel wrote:
>
>> Thanks for that, Dennis. Its warming up a bit which changes the ice
>> under the van to slush. Even them Dutch coveralls would not make getting
>> under it comfortable.
>>
>> I should find a handy nearby supermarket parking lot to swap the filter
>> to one with the correct threading.
>>
>> --
>> Jack Elliott
>> 1984 Westfalia, auto trans,
>> Bend, Ore.
>> Host and engineer, KPOV 88.9 FM
>>
>> On 01/03/2016 08:24 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
>>> For the fun of it I looked up your climate.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bend,_Oregon
>>>
>>> I can see why that area is so popular for Vanagon campers. Nice mild summers
>>> and the outdoor activities and scenery is obvious.
>>> Looking at your winter temps there are only a few days that you go near or
>>> below 0F and much of the winter is near freezing. I see no need for engine
>>> pre heating. Especially with street parking and the use of long extension
>>> cords I see this as something to avoid. I don't know how many miles you
>>> drive/year but since you have an oil cooler and a pressure gauge you should
>>> be able to run a 0w-40 or 5w-40 all year. If you really need more go for the
>>> 5w-50 or you could go for semiannual oil changes using 0w-40 winter and
>>> 15w-50 summer.
>>>
>>> Keep in mind that oil filter failure was due to using the wrong filter, not
>>> an excess oil pressure problem. Don't go too crazy trying to fix a problem
>>> that doesn't exist or worse creating other problems such as someone tripping
>>> over that cord.
>>>
>>> Dennis
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Rocket J Squirrel
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2016 10:57 PM
>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> Subject: Re: Warming the oil in cold weather? Other options.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the writeup, Dennis.
>>>
>>> The idea of placing a heater or heat lamps under my van to keep the engine
>>> warm is attractive in its simplicity, but my van is parked out on the
>>> street, and I think it would look weird and draw attention during darkness.
>>>
>>> Seems like the next simplest and reasonably effective approach will be to
>>> paste pad heaters the water jackets.
>>>
>>> It's around freezing (below and above) these days, and the van has ice under
>>> it. I'd like to avoid climbing under it to measure how much clear area there
>>> is on the undersides of the water jackets. perhaps if someone has a 1.9L
>>> engine sitting in a nice warm place, I would be very appreciative to know
>>> how big the clear flat areas are under the jackets so I can order pad
>>> heaters for them.
>>>
>>> I reckon scrub the areas on the the water jackets, maybe with brake cleaner,
>>> brush them to rough them up a bit, use thermally-conductive epoxy to affix
>>> the pads? That seem like a reasonable approach?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott
>>> 1984 Westfalia, auto trans,
>>> Bend, Ore.
>>>
>>> On 01/03/2016 06:25 AM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
>>>> When looking at engine preheating there are two different systems that
>>>> need to considered. For really cold climates and especially for
>>>> Diesels the primary consideration is getting the engine to start. So
>>>> here coolant heaters are the first priority. Warming the coolant does
>>>> transfer some heat to the oil. It also keeps the oil film on the
>>>> cylinder walls warm and as soon as the engine starts the warm engine
>>>> parts will warm the oil. Also, if the engine has a substantial oil to
>>>> water heat exchanger (on the engine side of the thermostat) some heat will
>>> transfer to the oil.
>>>>
>>>> When looking to install a coolant heater you need to consider the type
>>>> and where. There are pump types and convection types. Unfortunately
>>>> the Water Boxer does no lend itself to freeze plug heaters as most other
>>> engines do.
>>>> The non-pump heaters rely on thermal currents to make the coolant
>>>> flow. With the 2.1L cooling system you can install one in that water pump
>>> inlet pipe.
>>>> Other wise one of the pump types installed in the heater circuit will
>>>> work best.
>>>>
>>>> The pad heaters are also an option. Consider attaching directly to the
>>>> water jacket either on top or underneath between the jacket and pushrod
>>> tubes.
>>>> This lower location will also do better transferring heat to the oil
>>>> as you will be heating the case also.
>>>>
>>>> If you want to really go out install one of these Espar heating
>>>> systems. Set the timer and get into a nice heated van with a warmed up
>>>> engine. You can also set this up for interior heating while camping
>>>> although it does get a bit power hungry as ti will need to operate a
>>>> heater fan. The heater under the seat works best for this use as it is
>>> recirculating the air.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.lubricationspecialist.com/espar/
>>>>
>>>> The Water Boxer usually has no problem starting at cold temperatures.
>>>> But we are concerned about oil flow and avoiding excess wear. Since
>>>> these engines can also run hot and like higher viscosity oil we tend
>>>> to avoid using light oils that would be better suited. So oil heater
>>>> should probably be a higher concern for us.
>>>>
>>>> In the industrial world whenever we have engines especially for
>>>> emergency power pre-heaters, pre-lubrication, monitoring is utilized
>>>> much more. When emergency generators are also used for emergency
>>>> lighting the usual requirement for the lights to be in less than 11
>>>> seconds. That means when power fails, detect the loss, start the
>>>> engine, stabilize the speed, and drop the load on it. Usually the oil
>>>> and coolant jackets are maintained ~120F.
>>>>
>>>> One option for the Water Boxer which is best done during a rebuild is
>>>> to install a cartridge type heating element in the crankcase.
>>>> You will need to drill-tap the case to install one of these
>>>> http://www.mcmaster.com/#4668t52/=10irkel
>>>> But they are extremely effective. Be sure that it is installed low
>>>> enough so that it is always submerged in oil. It would also be a good
>>>> idea to use some type of thermostat control.
>>>>
>>>> When using electric type heater I wish to emphasize the importance of
>>>> doing things safely. Follow the electrical code for any installed
>>>> systems. Use a GFCI protected outlet-circuit for the power source.
>>>> Image a heater shorting and putting 110V on the body and you are
>>>> walking in the snow and then grab the door handle! This stuff does
>>>> happen. If you are not sure find or hire someone that does. When you
>>>> plug into an outlet you do not control use of those outlet testers to
>>>> make sure it is wired correctly and that the ground is there. It
>>>> amazing how many outlets I have found over the years with the black-white
>>> wires reversed. Especially in RV parks. Yes it matters.
>>>>
>>>> Dennis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>>>> Behalf Of Karl Wolz
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2016 3:44 AM
>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>> Subject: Re: Warming the oil in cold weather?
>>>>
>>>> Had a teacher way back in high school tell the class to never buy a
>>>> truck from "up on the Rez", because they commonly would park their
>>>> trucks against the house and run it all night with the heater going
>>>> full blast to provide warmth inside the house.
>>>>
>>>> Karl Wolz
>>>> Sent from my electronic umbilicus
>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 2, 2016, at 11:59 PM, Mark Tuovinen <aksyncronaut@GMAIL.COM>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Last but not least and used for decades in some parts of Alaska and
>>>>> other cold climates best left to creatures other than human you can
>>>>> always get it started and leave it running until Spring arrives. i
>>>>> don't recommend this option especially with a Vanagon but it does
>>>>> work. It is also why used trucks from the North Slope are a bad
>>>>> investment, way too much idling for their low mileage. Years ago I
>>>>> worked in the Parts Dept of a Ford dealership and we sold reman.
>>>>> engines
>>>> like they were popcorn to the Slope.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark in AK
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Rocket J Squirrel
>>>>> <camping.elliott@gmail.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 01/02/2016 02:35 PM, Richard Smith wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All of our vehicles had block heaters. The vws had a circular thing
>>>>>>> under the centre of the crankcase. They also had a "battery blanket"
>>>>>>> to keep the battery warm. Vanagons have no space for those, but
>>>>>>> they were essential back in the day.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seems like there'd be enough space for something like this:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <
>>>>>> http://www.autozone.com/1/products/18125-battery-pad-heater-22400-ka
>>>>>> t
>>>>>> s-heaters-22400.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott
>>>>>> 1984 Westfalia, auto trans,
>>>>>> Bend, Ore.
>>>>>>
>
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