Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2016 18:21:00 -0800
Reply-To: Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Warming the oil in cold weather? Other options.
In-Reply-To: <BAY405-EAS398C132022537928189B94AA0F20@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Thanks for that, Dennis. Its warming up a bit which changes the ice
under the van to slush. Even them Dutch coveralls would not make getting
under it comfortable.
I should find a handy nearby supermarket parking lot to swap the filter
to one with the correct threading.
--
Jack Elliott
1984 Westfalia, auto trans,
Bend, Ore.
Host and engineer, KPOV 88.9 FM
On 01/03/2016 08:24 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
> For the fun of it I looked up your climate.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bend,_Oregon
>
> I can see why that area is so popular for Vanagon campers. Nice mild summers
> and the outdoor activities and scenery is obvious.
> Looking at your winter temps there are only a few days that you go near or
> below 0F and much of the winter is near freezing. I see no need for engine
> pre heating. Especially with street parking and the use of long extension
> cords I see this as something to avoid. I don't know how many miles you
> drive/year but since you have an oil cooler and a pressure gauge you should
> be able to run a 0w-40 or 5w-40 all year. If you really need more go for the
> 5w-50 or you could go for semiannual oil changes using 0w-40 winter and
> 15w-50 summer.
>
> Keep in mind that oil filter failure was due to using the wrong filter, not
> an excess oil pressure problem. Don't go too crazy trying to fix a problem
> that doesn't exist or worse creating other problems such as someone tripping
> over that cord.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> Rocket J Squirrel
> Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2016 10:57 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Warming the oil in cold weather? Other options.
>
> Thanks for the writeup, Dennis.
>
> The idea of placing a heater or heat lamps under my van to keep the engine
> warm is attractive in its simplicity, but my van is parked out on the
> street, and I think it would look weird and draw attention during darkness.
>
> Seems like the next simplest and reasonably effective approach will be to
> paste pad heaters the water jackets.
>
> It's around freezing (below and above) these days, and the van has ice under
> it. I'd like to avoid climbing under it to measure how much clear area there
> is on the undersides of the water jackets. perhaps if someone has a 1.9L
> engine sitting in a nice warm place, I would be very appreciative to know
> how big the clear flat areas are under the jackets so I can order pad
> heaters for them.
>
> I reckon scrub the areas on the the water jackets, maybe with brake cleaner,
> brush them to rough them up a bit, use thermally-conductive epoxy to affix
> the pads? That seem like a reasonable approach?
>
> --
> Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott
> 1984 Westfalia, auto trans,
> Bend, Ore.
>
> On 01/03/2016 06:25 AM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
>> When looking at engine preheating there are two different systems that
>> need to considered. For really cold climates and especially for
>> Diesels the primary consideration is getting the engine to start. So
>> here coolant heaters are the first priority. Warming the coolant does
>> transfer some heat to the oil. It also keeps the oil film on the
>> cylinder walls warm and as soon as the engine starts the warm engine
>> parts will warm the oil. Also, if the engine has a substantial oil to
>> water heat exchanger (on the engine side of the thermostat) some heat will
> transfer to the oil.
>>
>> When looking to install a coolant heater you need to consider the type
>> and where. There are pump types and convection types. Unfortunately
>> the Water Boxer does no lend itself to freeze plug heaters as most other
> engines do.
>> The non-pump heaters rely on thermal currents to make the coolant
>> flow. With the 2.1L cooling system you can install one in that water pump
> inlet pipe.
>> Other wise one of the pump types installed in the heater circuit will
>> work best.
>>
>> The pad heaters are also an option. Consider attaching directly to the
>> water jacket either on top or underneath between the jacket and pushrod
> tubes.
>> This lower location will also do better transferring heat to the oil
>> as you will be heating the case also.
>>
>> If you want to really go out install one of these Espar heating
>> systems. Set the timer and get into a nice heated van with a warmed up
>> engine. You can also set this up for interior heating while camping
>> although it does get a bit power hungry as ti will need to operate a
>> heater fan. The heater under the seat works best for this use as it is
> recirculating the air.
>>
>> http://www.lubricationspecialist.com/espar/
>>
>> The Water Boxer usually has no problem starting at cold temperatures.
>> But we are concerned about oil flow and avoiding excess wear. Since
>> these engines can also run hot and like higher viscosity oil we tend
>> to avoid using light oils that would be better suited. So oil heater
>> should probably be a higher concern for us.
>>
>> In the industrial world whenever we have engines especially for
>> emergency power pre-heaters, pre-lubrication, monitoring is utilized
>> much more. When emergency generators are also used for emergency
>> lighting the usual requirement for the lights to be in less than 11
>> seconds. That means when power fails, detect the loss, start the
>> engine, stabilize the speed, and drop the load on it. Usually the oil
>> and coolant jackets are maintained ~120F.
>>
>> One option for the Water Boxer which is best done during a rebuild is
>> to install a cartridge type heating element in the crankcase.
>> You will need to drill-tap the case to install one of these
>> http://www.mcmaster.com/#4668t52/=10irkel
>> But they are extremely effective. Be sure that it is installed low
>> enough so that it is always submerged in oil. It would also be a good
>> idea to use some type of thermostat control.
>>
>> When using electric type heater I wish to emphasize the importance of
>> doing things safely. Follow the electrical code for any installed
>> systems. Use a GFCI protected outlet-circuit for the power source.
>> Image a heater shorting and putting 110V on the body and you are
>> walking in the snow and then grab the door handle! This stuff does
>> happen. If you are not sure find or hire someone that does. When you
>> plug into an outlet you do not control use of those outlet testers to
>> make sure it is wired correctly and that the ground is there. It
>> amazing how many outlets I have found over the years with the black-white
> wires reversed. Especially in RV parks. Yes it matters.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>> Behalf Of Karl Wolz
>> Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2016 3:44 AM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: Warming the oil in cold weather?
>>
>> Had a teacher way back in high school tell the class to never buy a
>> truck from "up on the Rez", because they commonly would park their
>> trucks against the house and run it all night with the heater going
>> full blast to provide warmth inside the house.
>>
>> Karl Wolz
>> Sent from my electronic umbilicus
>>
>>> On Jan 2, 2016, at 11:59 PM, Mark Tuovinen <aksyncronaut@GMAIL.COM>
> wrote:
>>>
>>> Last but not least and used for decades in some parts of Alaska and
>>> other cold climates best left to creatures other than human you can
>>> always get it started and leave it running until Spring arrives. i
>>> don't recommend this option especially with a Vanagon but it does
>>> work. It is also why used trucks from the North Slope are a bad
>>> investment, way too much idling for their low mileage. Years ago I
>>> worked in the Parts Dept of a Ford dealership and we sold reman.
>>> engines
>> like they were popcorn to the Slope.
>>>
>>> Mark in AK
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Rocket J Squirrel
>>> <camping.elliott@gmail.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 01/02/2016 02:35 PM, Richard Smith wrote:
>>>>
>>>> All of our vehicles had block heaters. The vws had a circular thing
>>>>> under the centre of the crankcase. They also had a "battery blanket"
>>>>> to keep the battery warm. Vanagons have no space for those, but
>>>>> they were essential back in the day.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Seems like there'd be enough space for something like this:
>>>>
>>>> <
>>>> http://www.autozone.com/1/products/18125-battery-pad-heater-22400-ka
>>>> t
>>>> s-heaters-22400.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott
>>>> 1984 Westfalia, auto trans,
>>>> Bend, Ore.
>>>>
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