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Date:         Mon, 4 Jan 2016 18:21:00 -0800
Reply-To:     Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Warming the oil in cold weather? Other options.
Comments: To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
In-Reply-To:  <BAY405-EAS398C132022537928189B94AA0F20@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Thanks for that, Dennis. Its warming up a bit which changes the ice under the van to slush. Even them Dutch coveralls would not make getting under it comfortable.

I should find a handy nearby supermarket parking lot to swap the filter to one with the correct threading.

-- Jack Elliott 1984 Westfalia, auto trans, Bend, Ore. Host and engineer, KPOV 88.9 FM

On 01/03/2016 08:24 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote: > For the fun of it I looked up your climate. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bend,_Oregon > > I can see why that area is so popular for Vanagon campers. Nice mild summers > and the outdoor activities and scenery is obvious. > Looking at your winter temps there are only a few days that you go near or > below 0F and much of the winter is near freezing. I see no need for engine > pre heating. Especially with street parking and the use of long extension > cords I see this as something to avoid. I don't know how many miles you > drive/year but since you have an oil cooler and a pressure gauge you should > be able to run a 0w-40 or 5w-40 all year. If you really need more go for the > 5w-50 or you could go for semiannual oil changes using 0w-40 winter and > 15w-50 summer. > > Keep in mind that oil filter failure was due to using the wrong filter, not > an excess oil pressure problem. Don't go too crazy trying to fix a problem > that doesn't exist or worse creating other problems such as someone tripping > over that cord. > > Dennis > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of > Rocket J Squirrel > Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2016 10:57 PM > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Subject: Re: Warming the oil in cold weather? Other options. > > Thanks for the writeup, Dennis. > > The idea of placing a heater or heat lamps under my van to keep the engine > warm is attractive in its simplicity, but my van is parked out on the > street, and I think it would look weird and draw attention during darkness. > > Seems like the next simplest and reasonably effective approach will be to > paste pad heaters the water jackets. > > It's around freezing (below and above) these days, and the van has ice under > it. I'd like to avoid climbing under it to measure how much clear area there > is on the undersides of the water jackets. perhaps if someone has a 1.9L > engine sitting in a nice warm place, I would be very appreciative to know > how big the clear flat areas are under the jackets so I can order pad > heaters for them. > > I reckon scrub the areas on the the water jackets, maybe with brake cleaner, > brush them to rough them up a bit, use thermally-conductive epoxy to affix > the pads? That seem like a reasonable approach? > > -- > Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott > 1984 Westfalia, auto trans, > Bend, Ore. > > On 01/03/2016 06:25 AM, Dennis Haynes wrote: >> When looking at engine preheating there are two different systems that >> need to considered. For really cold climates and especially for >> Diesels the primary consideration is getting the engine to start. So >> here coolant heaters are the first priority. Warming the coolant does >> transfer some heat to the oil. It also keeps the oil film on the >> cylinder walls warm and as soon as the engine starts the warm engine >> parts will warm the oil. Also, if the engine has a substantial oil to >> water heat exchanger (on the engine side of the thermostat) some heat will > transfer to the oil. >> >> When looking to install a coolant heater you need to consider the type >> and where. There are pump types and convection types. Unfortunately >> the Water Boxer does no lend itself to freeze plug heaters as most other > engines do. >> The non-pump heaters rely on thermal currents to make the coolant >> flow. With the 2.1L cooling system you can install one in that water pump > inlet pipe. >> Other wise one of the pump types installed in the heater circuit will >> work best. >> >> The pad heaters are also an option. Consider attaching directly to the >> water jacket either on top or underneath between the jacket and pushrod > tubes. >> This lower location will also do better transferring heat to the oil >> as you will be heating the case also. >> >> If you want to really go out install one of these Espar heating >> systems. Set the timer and get into a nice heated van with a warmed up >> engine. You can also set this up for interior heating while camping >> although it does get a bit power hungry as ti will need to operate a >> heater fan. The heater under the seat works best for this use as it is > recirculating the air. >> >> http://www.lubricationspecialist.com/espar/ >> >> The Water Boxer usually has no problem starting at cold temperatures. >> But we are concerned about oil flow and avoiding excess wear. Since >> these engines can also run hot and like higher viscosity oil we tend >> to avoid using light oils that would be better suited. So oil heater >> should probably be a higher concern for us. >> >> In the industrial world whenever we have engines especially for >> emergency power pre-heaters, pre-lubrication, monitoring is utilized >> much more. When emergency generators are also used for emergency >> lighting the usual requirement for the lights to be in less than 11 >> seconds. That means when power fails, detect the loss, start the >> engine, stabilize the speed, and drop the load on it. Usually the oil >> and coolant jackets are maintained ~120F. >> >> One option for the Water Boxer which is best done during a rebuild is >> to install a cartridge type heating element in the crankcase. >> You will need to drill-tap the case to install one of these >> http://www.mcmaster.com/#4668t52/=10irkel >> But they are extremely effective. Be sure that it is installed low >> enough so that it is always submerged in oil. It would also be a good >> idea to use some type of thermostat control. >> >> When using electric type heater I wish to emphasize the importance of >> doing things safely. Follow the electrical code for any installed >> systems. Use a GFCI protected outlet-circuit for the power source. >> Image a heater shorting and putting 110V on the body and you are >> walking in the snow and then grab the door handle! This stuff does >> happen. If you are not sure find or hire someone that does. When you >> plug into an outlet you do not control use of those outlet testers to >> make sure it is wired correctly and that the ground is there. It >> amazing how many outlets I have found over the years with the black-white > wires reversed. Especially in RV parks. Yes it matters. >> >> Dennis >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On >> Behalf Of Karl Wolz >> Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2016 3:44 AM >> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >> Subject: Re: Warming the oil in cold weather? >> >> Had a teacher way back in high school tell the class to never buy a >> truck from "up on the Rez", because they commonly would park their >> trucks against the house and run it all night with the heater going >> full blast to provide warmth inside the house. >> >> Karl Wolz >> Sent from my electronic umbilicus >> >>> On Jan 2, 2016, at 11:59 PM, Mark Tuovinen <aksyncronaut@GMAIL.COM> > wrote: >>> >>> Last but not least and used for decades in some parts of Alaska and >>> other cold climates best left to creatures other than human you can >>> always get it started and leave it running until Spring arrives. i >>> don't recommend this option especially with a Vanagon but it does >>> work. It is also why used trucks from the North Slope are a bad >>> investment, way too much idling for their low mileage. Years ago I >>> worked in the Parts Dept of a Ford dealership and we sold reman. >>> engines >> like they were popcorn to the Slope. >>> >>> Mark in AK >>> >>> On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Rocket J Squirrel >>> <camping.elliott@gmail.com >>>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 01/02/2016 02:35 PM, Richard Smith wrote: >>>> >>>> All of our vehicles had block heaters. The vws had a circular thing >>>>> under the centre of the crankcase. They also had a "battery blanket" >>>>> to keep the battery warm. Vanagons have no space for those, but >>>>> they were essential back in the day. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Seems like there'd be enough space for something like this: >>>> >>>> < >>>> http://www.autozone.com/1/products/18125-battery-pad-heater-22400-ka >>>> t >>>> s-heaters-22400.html >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott >>>> 1984 Westfalia, auto trans, >>>> Bend, Ore. >>>>


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