Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2016 23:10:26 -0700
Reply-To: OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Warming the oil in cold weather? Other options.
In-Reply-To: <568B288C.50409@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
RJS
Certainly don't Envy Your needing to do anything under a Van' in the Conditions You have
but Swapping an OilFilter on a Vanagon is PrettyMuch Usually A PieceOfCake ~ Just throw down
an old piece of carpet or some cardboard or Both & GoForIt ~ Then go back in by the Fire with a
Freshly Made HotButteredRum & Feel Good about Yourself for what You have done for your Van' ~
ORR ~ DeanB
On 4 Jan , 2016, at 7:21 PM, Rocket J Squirrel wrote:
> Thanks for that, Dennis. Its warming up a bit which changes the ice
> under the van to slush. Even them Dutch coveralls would not make getting
> under it comfortable.
>
> I should find a handy nearby supermarket parking lot to swap the filter
> to one with the correct threading.
>
> --
> Jack Elliott
> 1984 Westfalia, auto trans,
> Bend, Ore.
> Host and engineer, KPOV 88.9 FM
>
> On 01/03/2016 08:24 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
>> For the fun of it I looked up your climate.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bend,_Oregon
>>
>> I can see why that area is so popular for Vanagon campers. Nice mild summers
>> and the outdoor activities and scenery is obvious.
>> Looking at your winter temps there are only a few days that you go near or
>> below 0F and much of the winter is near freezing. I see no need for engine
>> pre heating. Especially with street parking and the use of long extension
>> cords I see this as something to avoid. I don't know how many miles you
>> drive/year but since you have an oil cooler and a pressure gauge you should
>> be able to run a 0w-40 or 5w-40 all year. If you really need more go for the
>> 5w-50 or you could go for semiannual oil changes using 0w-40 winter and
>> 15w-50 summer.
>>
>> Keep in mind that oil filter failure was due to using the wrong filter, not
>> an excess oil pressure problem. Don't go too crazy trying to fix a problem
>> that doesn't exist or worse creating other problems such as someone tripping
>> over that cord.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
>> Rocket J Squirrel
>> Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2016 10:57 PM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: Warming the oil in cold weather? Other options.
>>
>> Thanks for the writeup, Dennis.
>>
>> The idea of placing a heater or heat lamps under my van to keep the engine
>> warm is attractive in its simplicity, but my van is parked out on the
>> street, and I think it would look weird and draw attention during darkness.
>>
>> Seems like the next simplest and reasonably effective approach will be to
>> paste pad heaters the water jackets.
>>
>> It's around freezing (below and above) these days, and the van has ice under
>> it. I'd like to avoid climbing under it to measure how much clear area there
>> is on the undersides of the water jackets. perhaps if someone has a 1.9L
>> engine sitting in a nice warm place, I would be very appreciative to know
>> how big the clear flat areas are under the jackets so I can order pad
>> heaters for them.
>>
>> I reckon scrub the areas on the the water jackets, maybe with brake cleaner,
>> brush them to rough them up a bit, use thermally-conductive epoxy to affix
>> the pads? That seem like a reasonable approach?
>>
>> --
>> Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott
>> 1984 Westfalia, auto trans,
>> Bend, Ore.
>>
>> On 01/03/2016 06:25 AM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
>>> When looking at engine preheating there are two different systems that
>>> need to considered. For really cold climates and especially for
>>> Diesels the primary consideration is getting the engine to start. So
>>> here coolant heaters are the first priority. Warming the coolant does
>>> transfer some heat to the oil. It also keeps the oil film on the
>>> cylinder walls warm and as soon as the engine starts the warm engine
>>> parts will warm the oil. Also, if the engine has a substantial oil to
>>> water heat exchanger (on the engine side of the thermostat) some heat will
>> transfer to the oil.
>>>
>>> When looking to install a coolant heater you need to consider the type
>>> and where. There are pump types and convection types. Unfortunately
>>> the Water Boxer does no lend itself to freeze plug heaters as most other
>> engines do.
>>> The non-pump heaters rely on thermal currents to make the coolant
>>> flow. With the 2.1L cooling system you can install one in that water pump
>> inlet pipe.
>>> Other wise one of the pump types installed in the heater circuit will
>>> work best.
>>>
>>> The pad heaters are also an option. Consider attaching directly to the
>>> water jacket either on top or underneath between the jacket and pushrod
>> tubes.
>>> This lower location will also do better transferring heat to the oil
>>> as you will be heating the case also.
>>>
>>> If you want to really go out install one of these Espar heating
>>> systems. Set the timer and get into a nice heated van with a warmed up
>>> engine. You can also set this up for interior heating while camping
>>> although it does get a bit power hungry as ti will need to operate a
>>> heater fan. The heater under the seat works best for this use as it is
>> recirculating the air.
>>>
>>> http://www.lubricationspecialist.com/espar/
>>>
>>> The Water Boxer usually has no problem starting at cold temperatures.
>>> But we are concerned about oil flow and avoiding excess wear. Since
>>> these engines can also run hot and like higher viscosity oil we tend
>>> to avoid using light oils that would be better suited. So oil heater
>>> should probably be a higher concern for us.
>>>
>>> In the industrial world whenever we have engines especially for
>>> emergency power pre-heaters, pre-lubrication, monitoring is utilized
>>> much more. When emergency generators are also used for emergency
>>> lighting the usual requirement for the lights to be in less than 11
>>> seconds. That means when power fails, detect the loss, start the
>>> engine, stabilize the speed, and drop the load on it. Usually the oil
>>> and coolant jackets are maintained ~120F.
>>>
>>> One option for the Water Boxer which is best done during a rebuild is
>>> to install a cartridge type heating element in the crankcase.
>>> You will need to drill-tap the case to install one of these
>>> http://www.mcmaster.com/#4668t52/=10irkel
>>> But they are extremely effective. Be sure that it is installed low
>>> enough so that it is always submerged in oil. It would also be a good
>>> idea to use some type of thermostat control.
>>>
>>> When using electric type heater I wish to emphasize the importance of
>>> doing things safely. Follow the electrical code for any installed
>>> systems. Use a GFCI protected outlet-circuit for the power source.
>>> Image a heater shorting and putting 110V on the body and you are
>>> walking in the snow and then grab the door handle! This stuff does
>>> happen. If you are not sure find or hire someone that does. When you
>>> plug into an outlet you do not control use of those outlet testers to
>>> make sure it is wired correctly and that the ground is there. It
>>> amazing how many outlets I have found over the years with the black-white
>> wires reversed. Especially in RV parks. Yes it matters.
>>>
>>> Dennis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>>> Behalf Of Karl Wolz
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2016 3:44 AM
>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> Subject: Re: Warming the oil in cold weather?
>>>
>>> Had a teacher way back in high school tell the class to never buy a
>>> truck from "up on the Rez", because they commonly would park their
>>> trucks against the house and run it all night with the heater going
>>> full blast to provide warmth inside the house.
>>>
>>> Karl Wolz
>>> Sent from my electronic umbilicus
>>>
>>>> On Jan 2, 2016, at 11:59 PM, Mark Tuovinen <aksyncronaut@GMAIL.COM>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Last but not least and used for decades in some parts of Alaska and
>>>> other cold climates best left to creatures other than human you can
>>>> always get it started and leave it running until Spring arrives. i
>>>> don't recommend this option especially with a Vanagon but it does
>>>> work. It is also why used trucks from the North Slope are a bad
>>>> investment, way too much idling for their low mileage. Years ago I
>>>> worked in the Parts Dept of a Ford dealership and we sold reman.
>>>> engines
>>> like they were popcorn to the Slope.
>>>>
>>>> Mark in AK
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Rocket J Squirrel
>>>> <camping.elliott@gmail.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 01/02/2016 02:35 PM, Richard Smith wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> All of our vehicles had block heaters. The vws had a circular thing
>>>>>> under the centre of the crankcase. They also had a "battery blanket"
>>>>>> to keep the battery warm. Vanagons have no space for those, but
>>>>>> they were essential back in the day.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems like there'd be enough space for something like this:
>>>>>
>>>>> <
>>>>> http://www.autozone.com/1/products/18125-battery-pad-heater-22400-ka
>>>>> t
>>>>> s-heaters-22400.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott
>>>>> 1984 Westfalia, auto trans,
>>>>> Bend, Ore.
>>>>>
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