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Date:         Sun, 3 Jan 2016 19:57:03 -0800
Reply-To:     Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Warming the oil in cold weather? Other options.
Comments: To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <BAY405-EAS3722E60E1AED98F30A51EF8A0F10@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Thanks for the writeup, Dennis.

The idea of placing a heater or heat lamps under my van to keep the engine warm is attractive in its simplicity, but my van is parked out on the street, and I think it would look weird and draw attention during darkness.

Seems like the next simplest and reasonably effective approach will be to paste pad heaters the water jackets.

It's around freezing (below and above) these days, and the van has ice under it. I'd like to avoid climbing under it to measure how much clear area there is on the undersides of the water jackets. perhaps if someone has a 1.9L engine sitting in a nice warm place, I would be very appreciative to know how big the clear flat areas are under the jackets so I can order pad heaters for them.

I reckon scrub the areas on the the water jackets, maybe with brake cleaner, brush them to rough them up a bit, use thermally-conductive epoxy to affix the pads? That seem like a reasonable approach?

-- Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott 1984 Westfalia, auto trans, Bend, Ore.

On 01/03/2016 06:25 AM, Dennis Haynes wrote: > When looking at engine preheating there are two different systems that need > to considered. For really cold climates and especially for Diesels the > primary consideration is getting the engine to start. So here coolant > heaters are the first priority. Warming the coolant does transfer some heat > to the oil. It also keeps the oil film on the cylinder walls warm and as > soon as the engine starts the warm engine parts will warm the oil. Also, if > the engine has a substantial oil to water heat exchanger (on the engine side > of the thermostat) some heat will transfer to the oil. > > When looking to install a coolant heater you need to consider the type and > where. There are pump types and convection types. Unfortunately the Water > Boxer does no lend itself to freeze plug heaters as most other engines do. > The non-pump heaters rely on thermal currents to make the coolant flow. With > the 2.1L cooling system you can install one in that water pump inlet pipe. > Other wise one of the pump types installed in the heater circuit will work > best. > > The pad heaters are also an option. Consider attaching directly to the water > jacket either on top or underneath between the jacket and pushrod tubes. > This lower location will also do better transferring heat to the oil as you > will be heating the case also. > > If you want to really go out install one of these Espar heating systems. Set > the timer and get into a nice heated van with a warmed up engine. You can > also set this up for interior heating while camping although it does get a > bit power hungry as ti will need to operate a heater fan. The heater under > the seat works best for this use as it is recirculating the air. > > http://www.lubricationspecialist.com/espar/ > > The Water Boxer usually has no problem starting at cold temperatures. But we > are concerned about oil flow and avoiding excess wear. Since these engines > can also run hot and like higher viscosity oil we tend to avoid using light > oils that would be better suited. So oil heater should probably be a higher > concern for us. > > In the industrial world whenever we have engines especially for emergency > power pre-heaters, pre-lubrication, monitoring is utilized much more. When > emergency generators are also used for emergency lighting the usual > requirement for the lights to be in less than 11 seconds. That means when > power fails, detect the loss, start the engine, stabilize the speed, and > drop the load on it. Usually the oil and coolant jackets are maintained > ~120F. > > One option for the Water Boxer which is best done during a rebuild is to > install a cartridge type heating element in the crankcase. > You will need to drill-tap the case to install one of these > http://www.mcmaster.com/#4668t52/=10irkel > But they are extremely effective. Be sure that it is installed low enough so > that it is always submerged in oil. It would also be a good idea to use some > type of thermostat control. > > When using electric type heater I wish to emphasize the importance of doing > things safely. Follow the electrical code for any installed systems. Use a > GFCI protected outlet-circuit for the power source. Image a heater shorting > and putting 110V on the body and you are walking in the snow and then grab > the door handle! This stuff does happen. If you are not sure find or hire > someone that does. When you plug into an outlet you do not control use of > those outlet testers to make sure it is wired correctly and that the ground > is there. It amazing how many outlets I have found over the years with the > black-white wires reversed. Especially in RV parks. Yes it matters. > > Dennis > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of > Karl Wolz > Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2016 3:44 AM > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Subject: Re: Warming the oil in cold weather? > > Had a teacher way back in high school tell the class to never buy a truck > from "up on the Rez", because they commonly would park their trucks against > the house and run it all night with the heater going full blast to provide > warmth inside the house. > > Karl Wolz > Sent from my electronic umbilicus > >> On Jan 2, 2016, at 11:59 PM, Mark Tuovinen <aksyncronaut@GMAIL.COM> wrote: >> >> Last but not least and used for decades in some parts of Alaska and >> other cold climates best left to creatures other than human you can >> always get it started and leave it running until Spring arrives. i >> don't recommend this option especially with a Vanagon but it does >> work. It is also why used trucks from the North Slope are a bad >> investment, way too much idling for their low mileage. Years ago I >> worked in the Parts Dept of a Ford dealership and we sold reman. engines > like they were popcorn to the Slope. >> >> Mark in AK >> >> On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Rocket J Squirrel >> <camping.elliott@gmail.com >>> wrote: >> >>> On 01/02/2016 02:35 PM, Richard Smith wrote: >>> >>> All of our vehicles had block heaters. The vws had a circular thing >>>> under the centre of the crankcase. They also had a "battery blanket" >>>> to keep the battery warm. Vanagons have no space for those, but they >>>> were essential back in the day. >>>> >>> >>> Seems like there'd be enough space for something like this: >>> >>> < >>> http://www.autozone.com/1/products/18125-battery-pad-heater-22400-kat >>> s-heaters-22400.html >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott >>> 1984 Westfalia, auto trans, >>> Bend, Ore. >>>


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