Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2016 13:15:08 -0600
Reply-To: mcneely4@COX.NET
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dave Mcneely <mcneely4@COX.NET>
Subject: Re: Dodged a bullet -- blowed the oil filter right off
In-Reply-To: <CAHtJhYN5ZCDs5UHF75dq-=oiGw7sB8P7JiQhR3TANQTG8mzQGg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
OK, so, two questions:
1. What oil pressure is too high? My gauge registers up to 80 psi. When cold at startup (like now) the gauge reads 70 - 75 psi. Following the owner's manual and previous advice, I drive it without warming it up. The temperature rises quickly, and the pressure drops to around 30 psi, varying with rpms. Is that initial 70-75 psi too high? Right now it has Mobil1 10W40 in it.
2. How cold is too cold? I don't have a thermometer in my shop or on the van exterior. Yesterday morning it was -1 F outside my shop. There was a little water, frozen but soft (sort of slushy) on the shop floor, so I think the shop temperature was higher than outside. The shop is insulated, but I haven't heated it so far. I guess the floor, being in earth contact, is warmer than the outside temperature, and heats the air inside a bit. I wouldn't think that -1 F would be too cold, and I have driven the van for 6 years now, including when temperatures were that cold or colder. Before last winter, I used Castrol 20W50 year round, and the oil pressure readings were similar to now. I switched to the Mobil1 when I moved to Spokane from Oklahoma, figuring winters are colder here as a rule. Around 0 F was generally the winter minimum in Oklahoma. I am thinking I might try the new Mobil1 5W50 next oil change, if I can get it.
mcneely
---- Mark Tuovinen <aksyncronaut@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> As always Dennis provides accurate and valuable insight to Vanagon
> lubrication. Let me add one note to what he has said, "pour point" is just
> that and does not mean that your van will not have issues when starting in
> the cold even with oil rated for the temperature. Oil in your cold engine
> is being pumped under pressure and even synthetic oil when cold yet at
> temperatures above pour point will blow seals often the oil cooler o-ring
> goes first. It is common for Vanagon owners that drive year round up here
> to run oil that is Ow or 5w at the lower end during winter and switch to
> 15w or 20w for summer. When we shipped our Westy down to Daryl in November
> of 2011 prior to our road trip I warned the transporter to not to start it
> without first warming it up, as it was below zero, even with oil rated for
> the temperature. They of course did not listen and promptly blew out the
> oil cooler o-ring. Due to time constraints it ended up being shipped it
> that condition and Matt and/or Daryl had the joy of fixing it upon arrival
> so that we would not be delayed departing on our trip as we had time
> deadlines to meet. If you are going to start your engine in cold
> temperatures use an engine heater, its better for your engine, your bank
> account, and the environment.
>
> Mark in AK (balmy, warm AK so far this winter!)
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Except for their motor cycle oils I am not aware of a 20w-50 Mobil 1.
> >
> > https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pvl/files/pdfs/mobil-1-oil-product-specs-guide.pdf
> >
> > Note page 2 has both the 15w-50 and now there is a 5w-50 oil available.
> > For winter and in my non-vanagon European cars I was using the 0w-40
> > European formulae. Now that the 5w-50 is available that will be my winter
> > oil for the Vanagons. I live in New York.
> >
> > The Vanagon viscosity chart is just a bit dated but outside of some
> > confusing items it is a good start. For winter operation the viscosity
> > ratings are a bit limited. The SAE ratings are based on viscosities at a
> > given temperature. Of the two numbers listed the lower (W) is related to
> > the oils viscosity at 40C, (104F) and the higher number is reference at
> > 100C (212F). The next important factor is the viscosity index. This is how
> > the oil changes viscosity with temperature outside this range. For cold
> > weather operation the next and most important rating is the pour point. At
> > what temperature does the oil get so thick it cannot flow. Since most
> > conventional oils have some waxes in the base this is a limiting factor.
> > Think of Diesel fuel when it get so cold it starts to get wax crystals
> > blocking filters and stopping engines from starting or worse shutting down
> > while traveling. Most pump Diesel gets treated for cold weather use and
> > truckers know to address this on their own.
> >
> > This is where the synthetic oil can really shine. Even the high viscosity
> > 15w-50 has a pour point of -39c, (-38.2F). This compares to the Castrol GTX
> > 20w-50 of only -27C, (-16.6F). Also note the Mobil viscosity index is 160
> > as compared to the Castrol's 123.
> >
> > I have to go now. I'll be back with some winter engine operation tips.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
> > Of Rocket J Squirrel
> > Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2015 12:17 PM
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Re: Dodged a bullet -- blowed the oil filter right off
> >
> > Well now. Let's look at my best choice for oil for this neck of the woods.
> >
> > Summers here can easily hit 100 degrees F during the day and an overnight
> > freeze is not unusual. Winters can go into the minus teens F.
> >
> > The chart in the Owner's Manual shows for multigrade oils: 15F to 85F
> >
> > SAE20W-50 & SAE20W-40: 10F to 85F
> > SAE15W-50 & SAE15W-40: 5F to 85F
> > SAE10W-30: -5F to 60F
> > SAE5W-20 & SAE5W-30: -20F to 15F
> >
> > I use Mobil-1 20W-50 for summer, 10W-30 for winter.
> >
> > --
> > Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott
> > 1984 Westfalia, auto trans,
> > Bend, Ore.
> >
> > On 12/29/2015 10:07 PM, Tom Hargrave wrote:
> > > The manual already exists - Haynes is one of the publisher's.
> > >
> > > If you run multi-grade oil, like 10W-40 or 10W-30 you should not need to
> > swap summer and winter oils. That's why multi-grade oils exist.
> > >
> > > And BTW, it's nice to know what actually happened to your filter -
> > thanks.
> > >
> > > Thanks, Tom Hargrave
> > > www.kegkits.com
> > > www.stir-plate.com
> > > www.towercooler.com
> > > www.grow-sun.com
> > > www.raspberryproject.com
> > > http://goo.gl/niRzVw
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On
> > > Behalf Of eve Appleton
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 10:20 PM
> > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > Subject: Re: Dodged a bullet -- blowed the oil filter right off
> > >
> > > Would someone please write an instructional book. Forget the bentley,
> > obviously meant for the elitely mechanic minded... One which tells us to
> > shift oil weights in the winter. 3 hrs waiting for a flatbed today on 167.
> > Was on my way to work which is why i got the westy to begin with. $300
> > poorer (work loss), I'm hearing for the first time to lighten my oil weight
> > in winter? GDit! What good is a maintenance budget if info like this slips
> > thru the cracks?
> > > Granted: turns out my exhaust pipe bracket let loose n whacked my oil
> > > filter. Huge white plume of smoke, work loss, a freeze to the bones 3
> > > hr tow wait, n another 3 hrs more at mechanic (where i do considerable
> > > amt of the work), I'm left with uncertainty about the state of my
> > > rings or valves. !##%!@€€**#! Is there an older lonely gent out there
> > > who's mechanically literate n open to union based on vanagon love? I'm
> > > seriously considering pimping myself. I just can't quit my van but
> > > need a preventative relationship, which nurtures reliability for my
> > > love of work. It's the idiot guide or prostitution. Given the latter
> > > comes with possibly restrictive consequences, would someone please
> > > !!!! write the damn idiot manual. In seriously frustrated joy, tongue
> > > in cheek, though not really.... eve
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> > >
> > > On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 4:01 PM, Rocket J Squirrel<
> > camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM> wrote: Okay, so it's my fault, but I think I
> > lucked out.
> > >
> > > As temperatures drop down the freezing, and below, I change my engine
> > oil to 10-40, a thinner grade. But this winter I got lazy. I admit it, I
> > got lazy.
> > >
> > > Well, one cold morning last week I started the van and trundled down the
> > street to go downtown, and was about a 1/2 mile from home when I noticed
> > that the idiot light for the oil pressure was lit. And the aftermarket oil
> > pressure gauge I installed a few years ago was at zero. They don't share
> > the same sender or anything so I knew it was serious.
> > >
> > > I pulled off the main road and got out and looked behind the van and
> > sure enough, a trail of oil behind me leading up to a small puddle under
> > the engine.
> > >
> > > Triple-A flatbedded the van to Gary's Ole Volks Home here in Bend, and
> > after an hour he called me and said that the oil filter had plain blowed
> > off.
> > >
> > > So here's what happened: at these low temperatures, I reckon that the
> > thicker summer oil was as thick as pine sap -- maybe amber -- resulting in
> > very high oil pressure.
> > >
> > > The oil filter was not the stock one that I use. I installed a
> > tencentlife oil cooler kit a few years ago, and it uses a banjo fitting
> > that goes between the filter and the engine for oil send and receive
> > (thermostat in there, too). The stock filter is too long to fit and he
> > recommends a Bosch 3300, which I have been using.
> > >
> > > But the last time I replaced the filter, when I switched from winter to
> > summer oil, the auto parts store was out of stock on the Bosch, and they
> > offered the Wix. I never heard of Wix, but the guy said it was a good
> > brand, so hey.
> > >
> > > Well, the mechanic was consternated by the shorter filter, said it was
> > the wrong one, and that the threads looked like pipe threads. I picked up a
> > new Bosch on my way over and took at look at the Wix, comparing it to the
> > Bosch, and the threads in the Wix looked pretty poor.
> > >
> > > So I think I lucked out here. That high oil pressure was gonna blow out
> > something, I'm just glad that it was a $6 oil filter. Otherwise, $75 for
> > the work, nothing (other than subscription to Triple-A) for the tow. It
> > could have been a lot worse.
> > >
> > > Engine sounds fine, I hope no damage was done.
> > >
> > > And what's the lesson, kids? Don't skip maintenance. And distrust Wix
> > filters.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott
> > > 1984 Westfalia, auto trans,
> > > Bend, Ore.
> > >
> > > -----
> > > No virus found in this message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 2016.0.7294 / Virus Database: 4489/11256 - Release Date:
> > > 12/25/15
> > >
> >
--
David McNeely
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