Vanagon EuroVan
Previous messageNext messagePrevious in topicNext in topicPrevious by same authorNext by same authorPrevious page (January 2016, week 2)Back to main VANAGON pageJoin or leave VANAGON (or change settings)ReplyPost a new messageSearchProportional fontNon-proportional font
Date:         Thu, 14 Jan 2016 18:28:06 -0500
Reply-To:     Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: More leaks
Comments: To: Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <03d901d14eef$e2d400f0$a87c02d0$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

The force created to push a hose off a connection is much like a cylinder. The force is factor of the pressure X the surface area or in this case the diameter of the hose. The 1.75 inch diameter at 15 psi is much greater than that 32 psi at .3125". If you want to calculate the force the formulae is Area = (pi × d2)/4 . The fuel line also does not see the expansion and contraction from temperature changes that the cooling system has. Using the correct hose, clamps and if it makes you feel more secure there are ferules that can be slipped inside the tube to prevent it from collapsing from over tightened clamps.

If you think the $300 for the pipes is expensive imagine adding shop labor to get them installed. Especially once this added to the bill for the engine replacement and tow. If you get real unlucky you may get to pay for paint damage of some cars behind you or worse an environmental clean-up.

I am extremely happy that some enterprising companies and individuals are making unique parts like this available. If no one buys than no one will provide. I have done some creative fixes including having a machine shop make barbed inserts for me and using both copper and off the shelf stainless tubes.

Now if only someone could supply the rectangular headlamps again!

Dennis

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Stuart MacMillan Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:21 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: More leaks

I agree about the barb, and that's been one of my biggest concerns with the Vanagon plastic fuel line. No barbs, 30 psi fuel, and hoses clamped on each end. I had that pop off once when I first had my '84, and dodged catching fire by pure luck. I check it regularly now but am tempted to replace it with rubber fuel line all the way to the pump.

I'll use some epoxy, but epoxying a stainless steel barbed sleeve in would be a better fix if such a sleeve existed.

$300 plus $60 shipping for a couple of pipes just seems excessive. Not to mention all the hours of fun under the van.

Stuart

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Haynes Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 5:20 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: More leaks

Clamped hose connections need more than friction to hold the hoses in place. The barb provides a stop and an additional sealing surface as the hose gets pushed off, the reduced hose diameter ahead of the clamp becomes like a compression seal which increases with pressure. When a customer tells me they can't afford this repair I suggest they make sure their tow plan will get them home and maybe they should even save for an engine.

So far every VW engine I have had to replace has had a cooling system failure in its past. Maybe not immediately but sometime there was a failure. I have seen these hoses separate a number of times and if they do go at highway speeds some engine damage is going to happen. Loose that coolant with some red hot parts inside and just think of letting a pot (especially aluminum) boil dry on a stove?

Do some type of fix with epoxy or something to get a hose stop back in place.

Dennis

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Stuart MacMillan Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 1:48 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: More leaks

There are lots of ways to fix this, but I was thinking about why it happens. It's the corrosion of the sleeve. Corroded metal expands at the surface and allows coolant to get in between the wall and tube, which is a lubricant. The clamp on the hose is not strong enough to keep the hose from working off as the sleeve moves out.

The real fix would be a new stainless steel sleeve, but it's taken 28 years for this one to fail, and the rough corroded surface should actually grip the plastic better when it's tapped back in and clamped.

Stuart

-----Original Message----- From: vw_van_fan_Mark [mailto:madvws@cox.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 6:53 PM To: Stuart MacMillan; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: More leaks

I just use a propane torch on low to gradually heat the metal insert and then I tap it back into the plastic pipe. If the barb end of the plastic is gone, I don't worry about it.

The plastic pipe end was not molded around the metal insert sleeve. The pipe was machined inside and then the insert was inserted.

Mark

Stuart MacMillan wrote: > Yep, the plastic barb end was in the hose and is now removed. > Apparently a previous attempt at repairing the leak used two hose > clamps, one was only on the extended steel flange, and the other was > on the very end of the hose about 1/4" over the tube, and at some > point slipped off. Now I know why is was just hanging there on the plastic tube. > > I'm reluctant to drill into the tube since that creates stresses that > can lead to splitting "down the road". It looks to me that clamping a > backstop for the steel flange into the hose (the GW brass insert) will

> adequately hold the flange in the tube. But if it works itself out > again it would now > pull the hose off the tube. . . . Maybe I should use a screw down clamp on > the tube rather than the spring clamp? > > Stuart > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On > Behalf Of Dennis Haynes > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 5:48 PM > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Subject: Re: More leaks > > The plastic end was molded around that metal tube and the molded part > included the barb to hold the clamped hose. For the tube to slide out > part of the pipe is missing and maybe still inside the hose, usually > stuck at the next bend. The GW kit is not a fix unless you rivet that > inner sleeve in place and then deal with the hose being deformed on > the inside. The fix is one of the replacement pipe kits. As for > discoloration originally those pipes were bright white, not yellowish > brown. With care the pipes can be replaced without dropping the tank. > > Dennis > >


Back to: Top of message | Previous page | Main VANAGON page

Please note - During the past 17 years of operation, several gigabytes of Vanagon mail messages have been archived. Searching the entire collection will take up to five minutes to complete. Please be patient!


Return to the archives @ gerry.vanagon.com


The vanagon mailing list archives are copyright (c) 1994-2011, and may not be reproduced without the express written permission of the list administrators. Posting messages to this mailing list grants a license to the mailing list administrators to reproduce the message in a compilation, either printed or electronic. All compilations will be not-for-profit, with any excess proceeds going to the Vanagon mailing list.

Any profits from list compilations go exclusively towards the management and operation of the Vanagon mailing list and vanagon mailing list web site.