Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 14:51:55 -0800
Reply-To: T3 Technique <christopher@T3TECHNIQUE.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: T3 Technique <christopher@T3TECHNIQUE.COM>
Subject: Re: Upper control arm bushings failed again, upgrade advice sought
In-Reply-To: <569D5C76.2050802@bellsouth.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hi Ed,
Some may feel that I shouldn't be answering this due to having an interest in certain bushings, but those that know me are aware that I am always very honest about the information that I share. That said, you should still take this with a grain of salt.
I obviously sell the Powerflex and Whiteline upper control arm bushings. I have literally sold thousands of them (fewer of the Whiteline upper control arm bushings because they are much newer). Out of those thousands, there have been a few bushings that failed over the years. However, the same can be said for many, many products. Very few products have a perfect track record. I think I have had somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-12 Powerflex upper control arm bushings that have failed and zero Whiteline upper control arm bushings have failed (a much smaller number of them are on the road) . There is a lifetime warranty on both of these products. While no one wants to have to replace upper control arm bushings because they failed, at least the parts are 100% covered.
I have over 100,000 miles on my personal 2wd with the Powerflex UCA bushings and they have never been touched, not even to change the grease. They are as quiet today as they were from day one. I have other customers with mileage up near that range and same thing with them. As long as the proper grease is used (and used liberally) during installation, there is no problem with noise.
You do not need to tack weld the Powerflex or the Whiteline upper control arm bushing shells into the upper control arm if they press tightly into place. There have only been a couple of reported situations where the shells did not press into the arms tightly. In those cases, it seems that the arms were possibly abused during previous bushing replacements which deformed the hole. I suppose it is possible for corrosion to be concern when considering the hole size, but I have never seen this happen. I always advise customers to press the shells in place, making sure to pay attention to how much effort it takes. If it seems like the effort to press the shells in is too light, than they should tack them in place for added insurance.
As for the other bushings out there that are made with much harder material for the bushing portion (be it Delrin, rod ends with PTFE liners or other materials that have almost zero isolation properties), the harder bushing material transfers much more road vibration and harshness into the chassis since there is almost no isolation properties in the bushing material. This is most commonly felt on roads with rough, gravely surfaces and when hitting things like expansion joints and pot holes. You will not feel a difference when hitting smoother bumps. I am not saying this as a theoretical possibility. I'm saying this having experienced and tested a number of different bushings designs and materials so that I could speak honestly about the differences.
I hope that helps explain a bit about the Powerflex and Whiteline upper control arm bushings, but please feel free to ask if you have any questions.
Thanks,
Christopher
www.t3technique.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of email99@bellsouth.net
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 1:43 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Upper control arm bushings failed again, upgrade advice sought
Well, three years ago I replaced the ball joints, tie rod ends and upper control arm bushings on my '86 Westy, putting grease fittings in the ball joints and tie rod ends. The greased joints are still tight but the upper control arm bushings are clunking and squeaking on one side once again. Only a long time Vanagon owner can appreciate how frustrating this is. I can't recall how many times I have done this in the past 24 years.
So it's time to fix it again and I can't see using original design bushings so I'll ask the list to share its knowledge.
Are there upper control arm bushing upgrades other than those produced by GoWesty and those produced by T3 Technique?
What experience have people had with these upgrades? What problems?
How many miles do you have on them and are they still tight? Do they make noise? Have any failed? Is there a noticeable difference in the ride? Are GoWesty bushings secure without spot welding? What is your perception of the design and quality of the parts? Do you have any other comments?
I appreciate any and all comments about the upper control arm bushings.
You may post these back to the list or send them only to my email if you wish.
Thanks in advance.
Ed
