Vanagon EuroVan
Previous messageNext messagePrevious in topicNext in topicPrevious by same authorNext by same authorPrevious page (January 2016, week 3)Back to main VANAGON pageJoin or leave VANAGON (or change settings)ReplyPost a new messageSearchProportional fontNon-proportional font
Date:         Mon, 18 Jan 2016 19:45:01 -0600
Reply-To:     Tom Hargrave <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Tom Hargrave <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET>
Subject:      Re: Upper control arm bushings failed again, upgrade advice sought
Comments: To: T3 Technique <christopher@T3TECHNIQUE.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <00c701d15256$34904430$9db0cc90$@t3technique.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Christopher,

Thanks for the education. If not for the cushioning action of the rubber, it seems that a sealed roller bearing replacement would be perfect.

Modern wheel bearings are sealed pressed in roller bearings or double row ball bearings. I hear people complaining about them but reality is they run many more miles than the parts they replaced.

Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com www.stir-plate.com www.towercooler.com www.grow-sun.com www.raspberryproject.com http://goo.gl/niRzVw

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf Of T3 Technique Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 7:11 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Upper control arm bushings failed again, upgrade advice sought

Hi Tom,

The problem with the existing stock-style upper control arm bushings for the Vanagon is that the materials and tolerances are very poor. The original Vanagon bushings were a three piece design. They have a steel outer shell that has deep female grooves formed into it, a plastic sleeve that has ribs formed into it to mate tightly to the grooves in the outer shell and in inner sleeve that has very thin rubber formed to it where it contacts the plastic sleeve. There is grease between the plastic sleeve and the rubber.

The problem with the aftermarket bushings is two-fold. The first problem is that they aren’t very well greased and the grease they use is not very resistant to water washout. The second problem is that the tolerance between grooves of the outer shell and the ribs of the plastic is very poor. What happened over time (and usually and fairly short period of time) is that the grease gets washed out and the rubber starts to grab the plastic sleeve, working it back and forth against the ribs. The ribs wear very quickly and when this happens, the pivoting occurs between the plastic sleeve and the outer sleeve to a greater and greater degree. Soon the bushings start to squeak and exhibit enough wear that the upper control starts to move.

People have tried a few different tactics to solve this problem. Some have used needles to force grease into the bushing, then used silicone to seal it up. Some have drilled and taped for a grease fitting. None that I know of have been good long term solutions. They do get some extended life out of the bushings, but the bushings still wear prematurely.

So while I totally agree that proper installation of the bushings has a definite impact on the longevity, the bigger problem with the stock-style Vanagon replacement bushings is the poor quality of the bushing itself.

Thanks, Christopher www.t3technique.com

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Tom Hargrave Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 4:52 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Upper control arm bushings failed again, upgrade advice sought

Ed,

I've not done upper control arm bushings on a Vanagon but I have replaced them in other vehicles and I don't understand why yours are prematurely failing. Even the originals should go past 100,000 miles.

There are issues that will contribute to early failure and here are some that I can think of right away.

Incorrect installation / damaged during installation - For example I was helping a friend with his car and he drug out a sledge hammer & socket to beat the replacement bushings in place. Damaged upper control arm - Openings distorted or something's bent. The suspension has been modified to extend the upper control arms to their limit - has the Vanagon been lifted? If it's been lifted to where the suspension can top out then that in itself will eventually destroy your bushing. Your upper ball joint is far stronger than your upper control arm bushings!

In other words, if you are installing them correctly then you need to find out what's damaging the bushings. If you don't it does not matter who's brand you install - you will be replacing them again!

Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com www.stir-plate.com www.towercooler.com www.grow-sun.com www.raspberryproject.com http://goo.gl/niRzVw

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf Of email99@bellsouth.net Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 3:43 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Upper control arm bushings failed again, upgrade advice sought

Well, three years ago I replaced the ball joints, tie rod ends and upper control arm bushings on my '86 Westy, putting grease fittings in the ball joints and tie rod ends. The greased joints are still tight but the upper control arm bushings are clunking and squeaking on one side once again. Only a long time Vanagon owner can appreciate how frustrating this is. I can't recall how many times I have done this in the past 24 years.

So it's time to fix it again and I can't see using original design bushings so I'll ask the list to share its knowledge.

Are there upper control arm bushing upgrades other than those produced by GoWesty and those produced by T3 Technique?

What experience have people had with these upgrades? What problems?

How many miles do you have on them and are they still tight? Do they make noise? Have any failed? Is there a noticeable difference in the ride? Are GoWesty bushings secure without spot welding? What is your perception of the design and quality of the parts? Do you have any other comments?

I appreciate any and all comments about the upper control arm bushings. You may post these back to the list or send them only to my email if you wish.

Thanks in advance.

Ed ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7294 / Virus Database: 4489/11417 - Release Date: 01/16/16

----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7294 / Virus Database: 4489/11417 - Release Date: 01/16/16


Back to: Top of message | Previous page | Main VANAGON page

Please note - During the past 17 years of operation, several gigabytes of Vanagon mail messages have been archived. Searching the entire collection will take up to five minutes to complete. Please be patient!


Return to the archives @ gerry.vanagon.com


The vanagon mailing list archives are copyright (c) 1994-2011, and may not be reproduced without the express written permission of the list administrators. Posting messages to this mailing list grants a license to the mailing list administrators to reproduce the message in a compilation, either printed or electronic. All compilations will be not-for-profit, with any excess proceeds going to the Vanagon mailing list.

Any profits from list compilations go exclusively towards the management and operation of the Vanagon mailing list and vanagon mailing list web site.