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Date:         Sat, 23 Jan 2016 17:09:17 -0800
Reply-To:     Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Anyone have experience with the F.A.S./GTA Auto trans cooler?
Comments: To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
In-Reply-To:  <BAY405-EAS95D24FB11E152A6FDA22D4A0C50@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Actually, that's my plan for now! Replaced the manifold and finally gave up and got the Craftsman cable hose clamp pliers. Wish I'd done that long ago! I'm going with the Subie 2.2 for my rig(s) for maximum tranny life.

Stuart

-----Original Message----- From: Dennis Haynes [mailto:d23haynes57@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 3:27 PM To: 'Stuart MacMillan'; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: RE: Anyone have experience with the F.A.S./GTA Auto trans cooler?

Part of my post was that since the torque converter is self-cooled, you can get by with no trans cooler at all for normal driving. Just disconnect those coolant hoses and install the non-automatic manifold and you are back on the road. As for overheated ATF not being an issue it really is regardless of the fluid used. There are number of seals and plastic parts inside that can fail when they get too hot. Everything an automatic transmission does is either controlled or operated by fluid pressure. Get one internal leak and the clutches no longer apply and lock up with full force and they then slip and you are on the side of the road. Get the oil hot enough to make all that smoke and spray all over the place and there is another cause of fire. Hot oil on that hot exhaust? Just think of a kitchen grease fire. If you add enough horsepower and also change the final drive gearing consider ATF temperature monitoring.

Dennis

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Stuart MacMillan Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 5:07 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Anyone have experience with the F.A.S./GTA Auto trans cooler?

Installing the manual transmission coupling/manifold is why I'm looking for another cooler. The AT version is a custom made aluminum unit that runs $200, and with a Subaru in the future it's not worth it. And, yes, I would have cut and plugged those hoses too rather than short circuit the cooling system.

At least GTA tested the F.A.S. cooler running up to Mt. Hood Lodge, elev. 6000'. Bend is at 3600', but the climb up the mountain is steep, and likely in second gear for most of it. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me.

When I rebuild the tranny it will get synthetic ATF, so 250 degrees will be no problem.

I'll likely buy it from my local shop, which makes its money on service, not parts anyway, since it's only $15 difference over shipping.

Stuart

-----Original Message----- From: Dennis Haynes [mailto:d23haynes57@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 22, 2016 6:45 PM To: 'Stuart MacMillan'; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: RE: Anyone have experience with the F.A.S./GTA Auto trans cooler?

The OEM transmission cooler and particularly the way it is plumbed into the cooling system is defiantly a questionable design. As for the concept of a faster warm up the way it is connected engine coolant does not flow into it until the thermostat begins to open. Worse is that it actually bypasses coolant flow available to the radiator. It would be better to feed this from the heater loop similar to the engine oil cooler on the 2.1 engines.

How effective this is a bit questionable. The main source of heat in an automatic is the torque converter, especially since it is not of a lockup type. The torque converter is self-cooling with the air fins and open housing. As for their testing with the unit in 3rd gear power is pretty much straight through. Run full power in 1st or 2nd gears such as a real hill climb and I wonder how well it will work. As that trans oil gets to 250 or more suddenly that oil to water heat exchanger works really well even with 190 water inside. Oil to water heat exchangers or elements inside radiators is the norm for many vehicles. It is hard to beat the efficiency and compactness of using a single radiator to cool everything.

When installing this you do not want to connect the two hoses together. Cap the ports off or get a manifold from a non-automatic. It won’t have the ATF cooler connections.

As for buying mail order to save sales tax that is a disadvantage or all local shops and suppliers. In most states it is a sales and use tax and there is a means to report and pay sales tax on items purchased outside and then brought in for use. I'll just suggest that if we don't pay that little extra to support local businesses we shouldn't be surprised when they are not there when needed.

Dennis

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Stuart MacMillan Sent: Friday, January 22, 2016 4:40 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Anyone have experience with the F.A.S./GTA Auto trans cooler?

After talking to Jon at FAS I'm sold. Their PowerPoint undersells the unit, there is no mention or photo of the internal design that is the real key to why it works. Turns out I have a local source, but 10% sales tax will be more than shipping from Van Café!

Stuart

-----Original Message----- From: Jeff Schwaia [mailto:vw.doka@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 22, 2016 11:46 AM To: 'Stuart MacMillan'; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: RE: Anyone have experience with the F.A.S./GTA Auto trans cooler?

Van Café sells the same one. You could reach out to them about any issues.

Cheers,

Jeff

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Stuart MacMillan Sent: Friday, January 22, 2016 9:52 AM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Anyone have experience with the F.A.S./GTA Auto trans cooler?

The plastic coolant bleeder/connector on my '85 automatic has failed, and since I'm converting to a Subaru 2.2 someday I don't want to buy a $200 part to replace it that will be tossed eventually. This means getting rid of the stock water cooled unit since this connector has connections for its plumbing.

I like the simplicity and ease of installation of the F.A.S./GTA design, and GTA has tested it, so it's at the top of my list. I know coolers have been discussed here before, but I've not seen anything on this cooler: http://www.foreignautosupply.com/parts-accessories/1-automatic-transmission- heat-sink/#.VqJrjvkrLIU

So, anyone have one?

Thanks!

Stuart


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