Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 21:32:56 -0400
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Diesel Vanagon Starter ?
In-Reply-To: <056b01d1a72a$3d8b0100$b8a10300$@gmail.com>
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The Bendix starter drive was used by many car manufacturers for many years with Ford probably hanging on the longest. It is still used in economy situations such as lawn mowers and snow blowers. Yes it is a somewhat abusive design.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Stuart MacMillan
Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2016 8:00 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Diesel Vanagon Starter ?
My experience is with early MGBs with inertial starters. What a dumb idea those were. The ring gear would last about as long as the clutch, or at least I made them last that long, usually by pushing the car to get past the missing teeth! Back then (‘70’s) I could get a new ring gear with installation for about $25, $150 in today’s dollars, but I don’t think it should cost that much though. But then I look at the price of the FAS flywheel . . .
Fortunately, solenoid starters are much easier on ring gears, at least when they are working properly.
Stuart
From: Scott [mailto:SCOTTDANIEL@TURBOVANS.COM]
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2016 4:33 PM
To: Stuart MacMillan; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Diesel Vanagon Starter ?
Very good ..
two conflicting opinions.
and thanks for the Link ....bit spendy at 600 bucks....
though ..
I do note that FAS says something about their dry ice fitment process for the ring gear, that tells me they are getting the hardened ring gear separately from the flywheel that they machine....
probably.
I'll just heat the ring gear up on the one I have and see what happens.
the comment about the ring gear being hardened and the flywheel not so much makes perfect sense.
Scott
On 05/05/2016 01:05 PM, Stuart MacMillan wrote:
AFAIK, all flywheels have replaceable ring gears. They are hardened steel and the flywheel isn't. I used to take them to a machine shop for replacement, but here is a fancy new flywheel option for you: http://www.foreignautosupply.com/parts-accessories/34-in-line-4-cylinder-vanagon-engine-conversion-flywheel/#.VyvP4vmDGko
Stuart
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Jim Felder
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2016 3:17 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Diesel Vanagon Starter ?
RE diesel flywheel teeth coming off... no, all one piece. Gone are they days, as far as I know, that you could restore a flywheel by grinding through the teeth until you could just knock the ring off with a hammer, then put the new ring in the oven and the flywheel in the freezer and then take that leap of no return. Fun!
Jim
On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 5:11 PM Scott <mailto:SCOTTDANIEL@turbovans.com> <SCOTTDANIEL@turbovans.com> wrote:
the diesel starter uses a bushing mounted in the nose of the starter itself.
There should be no movement of this bushing in the starter housing, and the fit of the starter shaft into it is ...'smooth, not sloppy or tight.'
there is a Retainer Ring sort of thing on the shaft forward of the bendix drive gear.
Covering that ring is a round part that snaps over the ring under it, that is in a groove in the starter shaft.
if you wiggle it, it will rock some on top of the ring it's covering.
..kinda a snap fit.
( when I go to replace a bendix drive gear ...I use an open end wrench over the shaft to tap this retainer thing off the ring. You can see which way it will go. )
havn't had to look at one in a while, but I'd say this 'cover ring'
thing limits movement of the bendix drive gear toward the flywheel and slight wiggle is normal..
And I imagine you have a stock diesel flywheel.
in any case...
'Usually' whenever there is oddball or unclean engagement of starter to flywheel ..
if it's not worn out flywheel starter teeth, it's the bendix drive gear.
a bit fidlly to replace ..
only about 30 bucks from a good starter rebuilder shop ..
take them your starter to get numbers off it .
Heck, I got The Perfect bednix drive gear for my 46 year old Mercedes car for $ 27 that way.
..and that totally fixed the intermittent failure to engage or stay engaged.
btw....flywheel teeth.
they don't wear evenly all around the flywheel, since engine compression causes the engine to stop in 4 places more than everywhere else.
Do rotate your engine through a full turn inspecting those flywheel teeth.
I have long wondered if the ring gear comes off the diesel vanagon flywheel.
'traditionally'...like on a 70's era Mercedes for example..
That gear is a heated/pressed/and shrunk on ring gear.
Like a 70 dollar part at a 'real' foreign car parts supply company ( not a FLAPS )
to replace it, heat with a torch ...tap if off..
heat new one..drop it onto the shoulder if fits on ..let it cool in place.
Neat.
One of these days I will try that process with a diesel vanagon flywheel I have, because just rotating that ring 80 degrees or so on the flywheel with give it fresher teeth for the starter to engage.
hope ya followed al that !~
S.
On 05/05/2016 02:52 AM, Don Hanson wrote:
I have an 84 van with an inline gas motor and the diesel style 50
degree mounting set up. The transmission is currently out. I have
had this strange "squelching" sound when I start the vehicle...not every time but frequently. Been doing this now for a few years and perhaps 40k miles...There is no problem starting, the starter seems to behave normally, other than the weird sound as the gear retracts, I guess.
On this diesel starter, there is a small bearing or bushing
sharing the shaft with the starter gear. It is about 5mm wide, with
a shallow groove around the circumference and is slightly loose on
that shaft. It seems to be meant to slide back and forth slightly on
that shaft, perhaps to keep the gear from being extended too far into
the flywheel teeth? I can 'wiggle' this bushing slightly with my
fingers....It seems like this could be the source of the weird sound that sometimes comes when I release my starter switch....kinda sounds like when you trap a ping pong ball (do people still play ping pong?) under the paddle against the table....
Does anyone have anything to advise about this? Is that bushing (sorry for the imprecise terminology) supposed to wiggle, or should it
slide smoothly on that shaft? Can that little bushing be replaced by
itself? What's it called? thanks. Don Hanson
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