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Date:         Fri, 6 May 2016 16:14:07 -1000
Reply-To:     Scott <SCOTTDANIEL@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Scott <SCOTTDANIEL@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject:      Re: 16" Wheels, Tires, Big Brakes
Comments: To: Marc Perdue <mcperdue@GMAIL.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <CAEwp_cRptU79yDY60HMAVT5h_95BxcpkwyhHUXG2muHSvC5KTw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

re speedo reading in 2WD vangaons. In my experience the speedometer reads a few mph high, on purpose.

going to slightly larger than stock tire size makes the speedo read closer to true ground speed.

with 14 inch tires on a vanagon you are always limited somewhat in handling .. we should define that even .. 'good handling' delivers.. 1. good 'turn-in' response in the steering. It's happy to go to the new direction you want it to go. 2.striaght line tracking is quite good. it's happy to go in a staright line without constant correction or steering input. 3. The van is not defflected much from the path you are telling it to go on by bumps and irregularieties in the road surface. 4. ..this is the big one one ..it does not Understeer Like a PIg and it doesn't oversteer like it's too sensitive to steering inputs.

I have driven Westy's that had 'Servere Terminal Understeer' .. that means when cornering, as you try to maintain the best speed you can ...and you add steering input ...the more you add in, the worse the 'ploughing' affect of the front tires gets, and the thing heals like a boat in a crazy sea .

They don't have to be like that. Won't mention my setup again ..but I promise you it does NONE of those, and it's a hightop too. Dead neatural steering response.. tracks like a demon .. feels planted to the road.

tires are the biggest factor. I really don't think you can get very far with 14 inch wheels no matter what tire you put on there. Front/rear tire prssure and even tire size, load capacity, stiffness and even wheel width are all very Real Factors in getting good handling and steering repsonse.

generally ..with the exact same tires front and rear in a 2Wd vanagon it's hard to get away from 'terminal oversteer' ..especially with 14'.

two stories .. guy shows up with a Syncro Vanagon with pretty correct tires on it. We go for a drive on a nice little bumpy test route I have. The van is bounching all over the road on bumps. I ask him what the tire pressures are ...he says something like 35 front and rear. I lower the fronts to 34 , keeping the rears to 38 ..or some ratio close to that ..rear tire pressure should always be 4 to 6 psi more than the fronts. We drive again. the van handles and tracks beautifully.

also ...every time I look at a tire sticker on a Syncro it says to me, D laod range tires in the rear, C load range tires in the front ( which doesn't make sense in a Syncro since one must do a 4 tire roation to keep all tires the same size and wearing about the same ) ...but I sweat that's what it says.

and this is how I set up my 14 inch 2WD vanagon tires if I'm stuck with 14's.. C load range in the front, D's in the rear.. Contributes significantly to good straight line tracking, more neutral handling, And I can't stand D's in the front , not even for a day, they are that harsh and stiff. They're fine , and better, in the rear tho. ( better than C's all around ) I kid you not, and I speak as someone who has raced cars and motorcyldes and driven several million miles in all sorts of cars and used to race like a manic at every opportuity.

Oddly ..one time there was a guy's 84 tintop Vanagon ..just an ordinary 84 Vanagon .I could not figure out why .. but that particular van I wanted to drive in a power slide on gravel 'all the time' ..it had unusually good steering response and feedback . It had Michilin LTX tires back when they still made those, and maybe the front and rear alignments were 'just right' ..or something ..that van handled noticeably better than most.

I suggest start looking for 'real' Vanagon 15 inch wheels , in gernal. 16's ..sure those can be great too. I don't like adapters and funny stuff like that..like 'some other wheel ' with a huge ET requiring spacers .

I don't know if Vanagon Cafe sells them still ..but I like their Steel 15 inch 'real vanagon' Wheels. that is a 'real' vanagon 15 inch wheel.. start there I suggest, and just move on from 14's.

I also like a forgiving semi-off-road ride and capability, so I don't expect to be running 17's any time.

best, Scott

On 05/06/2016 03:35 PM, Marc Perdue wrote: > You know, I'm starting to rethink this idea, given the complexities of > matching up wheels, tires, big brake kit, etc.... > > Reminder: 1987 Westy 2.1 L, Auto > > I currently have 195R14, or something comparable, on my van, two > Michelin LTXs and two Yokohamas. I was looking at Bus Depot's site and > seeing that they're getting the Hancook RA18's in around May 16th. > They also point out that the 195's make your speedometer wrong by > about 2.5 points, which mine is. I never realized that I didn't have a > stock size tire on my van. > > I'm considering switching out my non-stock-size 195's with some new, > correctly sized Hancook 185's, with the correct sized spare, keeping > the stock steel wheels, forgetting about the big brake kit, but > definitely investing in the PowerFlex Upper Control Arm bushings and > the Koni shocks. My feeling has always been that you always want good > rubber between you and the road and you always want good suspension > parts to keep that rubber on the road. > > Do you all think this set up would give me a good solid ride, with > good handling? It is understood that handling is, of course, a > relative term; it is a Westy after all . . . > > Thanks for your feedback and advice! > Marc Perdue > > On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Jeff Schwaia <vw.doka@gmail.com> wrote: >> The Ronal 17" wheels sold by Van Café were designed for the Vanagon and are a perfect fit. I've run these on several vans (and a Tristar Syncro) and they're great. We usually run 225/50 R17 with an XL rating. Good ride, excellent handling. Unlike a lot of other 17" wheels, these are 7" wide, which is what you want on a Vanagon. >> >> The last two sets we installed we got these Nokian tires from Amazon: >> >> http://www.amazon.com/Nokian-eNTYRE-All-Season-Radial-Tire/dp/B0100OG63A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1462214504&sr=8-1&keywords=225%2F50r17&refinements=p_89%3ANokian >> >> $68 and free shipping is a screaming deal... >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jeff >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Marc Perdue >> Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2016 6:37 PM >> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >> Subject: 16" Wheels, Tires, Big Brakes >> >> My Michelin LTX's are running low on tread and 14" tire options are limited at best. I'm thinking about moving up to 16" wheels/tires this summer because, given discussions here, there appear to be more tire options available. This stuff is ridiculously complex. I've been trying to do my homework. I don't want to be drilling out wheels, messing around with spacers, having my sliding door rubbing, having my tires rub when I turn corners, or any of that other nonsense. I don't care for the look of the Merc wheels. I loved the look of the American Racing AR95T ones that Dennis Haynes recommended back in 2014, but they've been discontinued. >> >> Add into this mix that I'm planning on installing the GoWesty Big Brake kit on the front of my van and things probably get a little more complicated, right? Or do I really even need the big brake kit? People seem to think that it helps when you put bigger wheels and tires on and that the wheels you get depend on whether you have this kit installed or not. True? >> >> So, what attractive wheel options are available that will work without modification? What actual tires are available that are decent and that will keep my speedometer accurate? >>


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