Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 19:43:41 -0400
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Pending clutch replacement
In-Reply-To: <B6861651-F798-49B0-96D0-66DBD2E0EDD7@NBNet.nb.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
If you can make the gear shifter move with load in 3-4th gear then there is
a pretty good chance the main shaft is moving back and forth due to a bad
main bearing or the gear carrier housing is pounded out. The 3-4 gear sit on
the input shaft. Now if the input shaft is moving enough, as you load either
1st or 2nd gear the angle of the gears will also move that shaft. Well, if
the shaft is moving as you are trying to engage the clutch guess what, you
will get a clutch shudder or chatter. If the clutch isn't slipping or badly
dragging drive as is until you can deal with the transmission.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Roy Nicholl [mailto:RNicholl@NBNet.nb.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 5:37 PM
To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Cc: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Pending clutch replacement
Thank-you Dennis, et al.
After the first of you mentioned it, it does make more sense to remove the
tranny in the vanagon - particularly given the nuisance of disconnecting the
cooling system {the cooling system on my '66 is much easier to manage ;) }
There is slop in 4th gear . if you are driving along with your hand resting
on the shift and take your foot off the fuel feed, the shift will move 1 -
1.5". Movement is not noticeable in any of the other gears. Perhaps I
should run this a little longer and start shopping for a replacement tranny.
I will try to find a Luk clutch kit. It was mentioned in response to my
question today - and I have read elsewhere - that I should use the diesel
pilot/needle bearing as it removes the need for the felt seal. Does this
also necessitate using a different flywheel (one without the groove for the
felt seal)?
I've not seen any external signs of fluid leaks, but I presume the crank
seal may be a candidate (the engine also has ~235,000 kms and the vehicle
sits all winter and a fair amount last summer).
The local mechanic is up to the task - an originally factory trained VW
mechanic who came to Canada in the late 60s and as been working on VWs for
50 years. I've used him for a long time. In my early air-head days he was
very helpful in showing me how to do things. I'll confirm with him that he
has a flywheel and clutch shaft on-hand in-case it is needed.
I'll eventually be replacing the Hyena with a diesel Atlantic or California
(I've looked at 8-10 in the past couple of years, but missed the one I found
that had a good good body yet) as the primary adventure vehicle. A friend
of mine converted his 87 to a 2.2 Subaru engine over the winter, - it's
pleasant to drive and gets better milage - so that may be the eventual fate
of the Hyena. I presume, I'll want a rebuilt tranny at that time.
> On 11-May-2016, at 16:50, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> On the Vanagon clutch replacement is usually done by removing the
transmission. Shudders or chatters can be caused by contamination of the
friction surface or pressure plate/flywheel. Since the vehicle was sitting
this could include rusting. Rusting will usually wear off. Since it is a
morning thing I would also be looking for fluid leaks and operation of the
clutch hydraulics.
>
> Clutch chatter could also be caused by other things including worn
transmission parts, pilot bearing, release bearing of the clutch operating
arm having bad bushings or being worn flat where it contacts the back of the
release bearing. Check that your choice of shop can handle any of these
scenarios so you don't end up paying for trans removal twice.
>
> For a basic clutch job you should be looking at about 5.5 to 6.0 hours
labor plus extras such as flywheel, crank seal, and those clutch shaft and
operating parts repair.
>
> Most of the true Sachs clutches come from Mexico. The China brand clutches
are bad news. I prefer the Luks myself. Success will be the details and
choice of parts especially seals and the felt ring for the input shaft-pilot
bearing.
>
> Dennis
>
>
>> Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 13:58:12 -0300
>> From: RNicholl@NBNET.NB.CA
>> Subject: Pending clutch replacement
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>
>> When I pulled the Hyena ('88 Westy WBX) out of storage last Saturday, I
felt what I though might have been a little clutch shudder on the way home.
I experienced a shudder twice more this week - first thing in the morning
after the Hyena had been sitting all night.
>>
>> The van has ~@235K on the clock and, as far as I can tell from the
records I inherited, the clutch has never been replaced. I'm guessing the
actual clutch replacement is similar to my '66 Westy, but the disconnecting
and reconnecting of the engine's "tethers" is a much more involved.
>>
>> Given my work schedule over the next month, I'm going to have to pay to
have this done if I plan on being able to take the boy camping this summer -
he's been playing in the Hyena every day since it came home - and that
likely won't be cheap. If I'm going to shell out a very wince-able amount
of cash to have the old, snarly-but-good, local guy swap the clutch, I may
as well use the opportunity to upgrade to a clutch that will (should?) last
longer.
>>
>> I looked at an OEM (Sachs) clutch kit last autumn - because it was for
sale locally - but it was stamped as made in China (not Germany). I know
parts quality coming out of China can be hit or miss, are the Chinese Sachs
bits of the same calibre as those made at home (Germany)? I have yet to
find a Canadian supplier of the Luks clutch kit {I've read there are two Luk
clutches - a "regular" one and a "heavier" one intended for syncros?} or a
Kennedy replacement clutch.
>>
>> Are there other candidates I should consider?