Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 13:23:47 -1000
Reply-To: Scott <SCOTTDANIEL@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott <SCOTTDANIEL@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Engine Oil Seal (and similar) vs Axle Bearing Grease Seal,
Install
In-Reply-To: <CAB2RwfjWGZF9hoopMVWS4DJBaFi0g98HdEcSWxF7fL8F7FtZPQ@mail.gmail.com>
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I have installed lots and lots of seals ..thousands.
like a waterboxer rear main oil seal, which could try to slide out after
I tap on in...
not necessarily that exact application .
but many times on similar seals.
thus I never lube the outside, and haven't had any problem taping one
into place.
re a groove worn , like in a crankshaft, where the seal runs.
that does happen ..
though I've never seen that on a waterboxer.
in the american car world, you can buy a smooth sleeve to slip over the
nose of say a Chevy crankshaft..so there is a new area for the seal to
run on.
Never had much of an issue with it myself tho, generally in worn seal
grooves.
re the Boston Bob vid ..
there is, IMO, a significant item left out ..
and that is to do with the felt pilot bearing seal in a waterboxer engine.
Pretty sure I read to soak that
felt sseal in engine oil before installation somewhere, and that's what
I always do.
Have not view the vid in years ..
but as I recall Bob is like 'just pop it in' .
Just tell ya what has worked for me, thousands and thousands of times.
All oil shaft type seals are lubed on the sealing lip upon installation..
All such seals are driven/pressed into the housing carefully, and dry
on the outside.
I also use Lubriplate white brake grease on seal lips....or the shaft it
runs on.
that works fine. On a flywheel I'm applying the lube to the flywheel
sealing l surface, not the seal itself.
sometimes I smear white
Lubriplate brand grease on the flywheel sealing surface,
then add engine oil to that ..and smear that around ...that makes one
slippery surface for the seal to ride on initially.
If it moves, lubricate it !
If it's stationary, protect it from corrosion !
Often both.
Scott
On 05/10/2016 12:55 PM, Neil N wrote:
> Hi all. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The following is musings of an amateur
> enthusiast!
>
> Given my prior misunderstanding of oil/grease seal design, and
> subsequent helpful
> comments provided, here's what I think I've learned:
>
> - if the OD (outer diameter) of a WBX engine oil seal was lubricated
> prior to install, it
> *likely* won't come loose from the engine; it's a pretty rigid seal design.
> - leave OD of a grease seal and area it seats into, dry before install
> - with either type of seal, lube portion of lip(s) that sees friction.
> e.g. from flywheel hub, wheel
> hub.
>
> Why I think this is true. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong!
>
> - if a seal is more rigid (e.g. engine oil seal at flywheel end), it
> may require lubrication at OD
> to aid in installation. Regardless, the more rigid design helps it
> stay in place.
> - if we assume that a grease seal is generally more flexible, (e.g.
> for axle bearing
> assemblies), that flexibility likely makes installation easier thus
> the seal OD doesn't require
> lubrication at time of install. And since it's more flexible, adding
> lube to OD could allow seal to pop loose over time.
> - if the same lube as used for the seal application is not applied to
> seal lip(s) that sees
> friction, that part of the seal will likely wear prematurely.
>
> (if you look closely at your flywheel when you replace the oil seal,
> you may see a ridge or
> groove. I was surprised to know this was possible, but AFAIK, the
> flexible oil seal lip is what
> causes that groove.)
>
> I once again watched the infamous Boston Bob oil seal etc. install video.
> Link to video:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/101290228103300323836/BostonBobFlywheelVideo#5543000332201103922
>
> Bob shows oil being applied to a new engine oil seal (clutch end of
> engine) and to
> area on engine where seal installs. However. Tencentlife, aka Chris Corkin (sp?)
> builder of WBX engines, states in upper case bold, to install the same
> seal, dry:
>
> http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1559514&highlight=install+dry+case#1559514
>
> But then that post was in 2006. Experience and opinions can change.
> I don't wish to misquote him.
> (I should really go repair my bus today as opposed to searching for more info
> on the 'net.... again)
>
> In this SKF pdf of "Wheel end bearing and seal installation guide
> Automotive edition Featuring front and rear wheel drive models",
> they don't mention lubing the OD of
> seal so I assume they are tacitly saying don't lube the OD of the grease seal.
>
> "Place the inner bearing in the hub. Lightly coat the lip of the new
> SKF seal with the same wheel bearing grease.
> 6. Slide the seal onto the proper SKF installation tool. ....."
>
> http://www.skf.com/binary/79-61236/457809.pdf
>
>
> Neil.
>
>
>
> --
> Neil n
>
> Blog: Vanagons, Westfalia, general <http://tubaneil.blogspot.ca>
>
> 1988 Westy Images <https://picasaweb.google.com/musomuso/New1988Westy>
>
> 1981 Westfalia "Jaco" Images, technical <http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/>
>
> Vanagon-Bus VAG Gas Engine Swap Group <http://tinyurl.com/khalbay>
>
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