Date: Fri, 20 May 2016 18:44:17 -0700
Reply-To: Neil N <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Neil N <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Setting E-brake causes adjuster to adjust? Hot Drums.
In-Reply-To: <573F8A5B.2050504@TURBOVANS.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Sorry. Meant to send that to the list as well. Working with an iPad right
now.
Neil.
>
>
> On Friday, May 20, 2016, Neil N <musomuso@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Scott
>>
>> The backing plates were rusted out, badly enough so that the a anchor for
>> upper springs was pulling free from the plate, the teeth on each adjuster
>> wheel showed real signs of wear.
>> Like some teeth were quite pitted for lack of better term and were nearly
>> 1/2 their original
>> Length. Also, I could not hear the old adjusters clicking to auto adjust.
>> The new adjusters, at least one makes a clicking sound. They are working it
>> seems.
>> Wheel cylinders are ok ( or were ok. See below), so i didn't replace
>> them. Lower shoe mount pins are ok though they do show wear at point shoe
>> slides. Brake hardware is something I'd replace with new shoes. The reason
>> I replaced the shoes was because the old set seemed to show signs of damage
>> due to excessive heat. It almost appeared as if the lining was separating
>> from the shoe at points. But. I do understand what you mean.
>>
>> Today, I slacked off the e-brake cables, and turned adjusters so shoes
>> were further from drums.
>> I could feel the difference in the brake pedal height. Drums still stay
>> somewhat hot with minimal braking in city traffic and I still hear a low
>> pitch hum type squeal type sound from at least one rear wheel when stopping
>> normally.
>>
>> My theories: by allowing the wheel cylinder Pistons to travel too far out
>> (for video making purposes), they may have been damaged causing them to
>> hang ( but all 4? Unlikely)
>> Or, back in 2008, when I knew far less about Vanagons,
>> ( you can just imagine. LOL.) before installing the new brake booster, I
>> checked the push rod adjustment. This is a distant memory but maybe I
>> adjusted that rod and did so incorrectly. Eg I adjusted it too long. IF I
>> did that, maybe that would keep the wheel cylinders pushed a little too far
>> out?
>>
>> My main theory is that there may not be enough clearance between the new
>> drums and new 6 mm lining shoes. Even though the means I used to measure
>> the new drum inner diameter and distance to outside of each shoe ( as per
>> Bentley) was not optimal, the gap spec of 1.5 mm given in Bentley was hard
>> to achieve. In fact I could not achieve that gap. So if there wasn't enough
>> room between drum and shoes to start with, assuming the shoes heat up
>> during use, and things get tighter, this might be what's causing the shoes
>> to rub when not n use.
>>
>> Maybe I'll just reinstall the old drums.
>>
>> Neil
>>
>> On Friday, May 20, 2016, Scott <SCOTTDANIEL@turbovans.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi ,
>>> I am tempted to give you a hard time about using 'all new parts.'
>>>
>>> I would *never* do that !
>>> I replace worn and tired parts, and keep all the ( often original and
>>> perfectly good ) serviceable parts.
>>>
>>> on the adjuster bar and wheel...
>>> first ...I have never seen anything wrong with a used one ...( on a
>>> hundred vanagon rear brake repair jobs ) ...heck, if was hired to
>>> straighten this out, I'll probably put the original ones back in, AFTER
>>> looking at a working vanagon to see which way they go in there.
>>>
>>> Are the threaded rods on the correct side of the van ??????
>>> the bars fit in two ways ...you'll notice at the end where the ratchet
>>> lever is ..the flat end of the bar is wider on one side of the notch than
>>> the other. Only one way is correct as far as I know.
>>> you can barely see that in Bentley.
>>>
>>> 'what you coulda/shoulda' done is just do your worst side with 'all new
>>> parts' ...until you had it working really right ..that way you could look
>>> at the untouched side to make sure you got your new side together correctly.
>>>
>>> really man ..I can't say it enough ..
>>> replacing Too Many parts at once easily leads to problems.
>>> I speciallize in doing 'just the right' thing ..
>>>
>>> I also don't have a goal of 'i don't want to look in these rear brakes
>>> for at least 5 years ' ..
>>> it's fine with me if I do say shoes and wheel cylinders and check
>>> roundness of the drums ..
>>> and get a year or so out of it.
>>> I think it's good to work on things now and then, as that keeps things
>>> from getting rusted and stuck ..
>>> keeps you inspecting things etc.
>>> Racing cars and motorcyclies are worked on constatnly, like before every
>>> weekend ..
>>> don't take things apart Too Many times...but 'some' is good for things.
>>>
>>> 'something' must not be right it would seem ..
>>> incorrectly installed part, parts that are not truly correct, etc.
>>> I don't think I've ever had the kind of problem you're discribing ..
>>> but then I don't replace EveryThing either ...just the parts that need
>>> to be replaced.
>>>
>>> let us know what you find.
>>> I'll look at those adjusting bars ultra, ultra carefully ..even put the
>>> old ones back in.
>>> you don't have to remove the shoes to 'sneak' other parts in ..like that
>>> bar or even wheel cylinders.
>>>
>>> good luck.
>>> S.
>>>
>>> On 05/19/2016 09:01 PM, Neil N wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all. Sorry for the long post but this is very frustrating.
>>>
>>> I've replaced nearly every part in my rear brakes. The shoes are so
>>> close to the drums,
>>> I have to leave the adjuster bar **slightly** slack. I've adjusted the
>>> shoes and e-brake at
>>> least several times now. This last time, with the new adjuster bars
>>> installed, I left my garage,
>>> drove a short distance, felt drums. They were cool. Drove more, parked
>>> on a *steep* hill, set e-brake really tight, released it, then drove
>>> away up hills for a while, parked in my driveway, the drums were hot.
>>> This did not make sense. This happened before. At that time my
>>> infrared gun showed drums being 100ยบ F but they felt hotter.
>>>
>>> Theory: setting e-brake pushes shoes closer to drum than foot pressure
>>> on pedal during
>>> normal driving, which in turn allows the adjuster to adjust shoes too
>>> close to drums
>>> which causes the drums to heat up even when brakes aren't being used.
>>> With my foot on
>>> the brake pedal while setting the e-brake, I feel the pedal drop very
>>> very slightly. I know this means the shoes aren't adjusted properly
>>> but the pedal height is ok and if I adjust the shoes
>>> any closer, they drag, causing the drums to heat up when brakes not in use.
>>>
>>> New parts:
>>> - backing plates
>>> - e-brake cables
>>> - shoes, drums, hardware
>>> - adjuster bar and wheel
>>>
>>> Do I
>>>
>>> - not use e-brake until shoes have worn down
>>> - back off e-brake adjustment (there is a ~ 1/16" gap between e-brake
>>> lever and adjuster
>>> bar)
>>> - remove material from shoes
>>> - turn drums
>>> - not worry, leave things as-is
>>>
>>> If I leave things as-is, I feel like I'm ruining the drums and shoes
>>> but there seems to be
>>> no recourse!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Neil.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Neil n
>>
>> Blog: Vanagons, Westfalia, general <http://tubaneil.blogspot.ca/>
>>
>> 1988 Westy Images <https://picasaweb.google.com/musomuso/New1988Westy>
>>
>> 1981 Westfalia "Jaco" Images, technical
>> <http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/>
>>
>> Vanagon-Bus VAG Gas Engine Swap Group <http://tinyurl.com/khalbay>
>>
>>
--
Neil n
Blog: Vanagons, Westfalia, general <http://tubaneil.blogspot.ca>
1988 Westy Images <https://picasaweb.google.com/musomuso/New1988Westy>
1981 Westfalia "Jaco" Images, technical <http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/>
Vanagon-Bus VAG Gas Engine Swap Group <http://tinyurl.com/khalbay>
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