Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 18:20:56 -0400
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: No start
In-Reply-To: <CAFnDXk2j1_2CQQCY0cR+HBUUgNnyVWij0xZf0rTxVWNVGK4N8g@mail.gmail.com>
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The reality is that you can’t even trust the German switches or the even the dealer switches etc. Industry in general is trying hard to reduce costs and materials, methods, and even quality control suffers. Over the years I have even dealt with defective Bosch spark plugs. New parts is no guarantee of good parts, especially with electrical-mechanical assemblies.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Jim Felder
Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2016 2:37 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: No start
I have written up a number of posts about how you cannot trust any ignition switch except the German ones from certain list vendors. I know that nobody reads all that kind of detail but this has been mentioned enough times by enough people that at least anybody but a new Vanagon owner or list member should know about it. I have had to replace a switch )better than flaps, but not the "right" one after only two weeks in the car. Just ask on the list, you will be pointed to the source for the correct part. No FLAPS for VW electronics, ever, including sensors or ever fuses in my opinion, but especially relays and ignition switches. And order a spare.
Jim
On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 11:22 PM Grant Johnson <smiley.grant@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I'll forgive you for bring snarkey! Haha! The messed up thing is, when
> I tried starting it today, I noticed that the dash lights were
> misbehaving, and that's what finally prompted me to swap in my spare ignition switch.
> But looking back at this whole chain of events..... My dash lights
> have been behaving like that the whole time. I swapped in a new
> ignition switch about a month ago, and I was so blinded by it, that I
> failed to realize the obvious. Lesson learned!
>
> On Wednesday, June 1, 2016, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm going to ask for forgiveness for being snarkly up front so here goes.
> > I'm really trying to be helpful. The most important part of becoming
> > self-sufficient is preparedness and that begins with a mindset and
> > some knowledge.
> > Here are some points to help everyone get better at diagnosing
> > single point failures.
> >
> > Get a reasonably good multi meter and learn how to use it. If you
> > learn ohm's and Kirchhoff's laws you will be able to reliably
> > diagnose almost
> any
> > circuit out there, especially DC. Volts, Amps, Ohms, get them licked
> > and troubleshooting electrical circuits will become like plumbing.
> >
> > On your vehicle, learn how everything operates, how the various
> > systems are related, and the nuances for your van.
> >
> > For testing the ignition switch everything needed should already be
> > in
> the
> > dash. When you turn the key on you should see the alternator and oil
> > pressure lights come on. If they don’t they need to be fixed. As you
> > continue to turn the key to the start position they need to stay on
> > while the engine is cranking. If the engine cranks long enough the
> > oil pressure light may go off but the alternator light will stay on
> > until the engine actually starts and the alternator begins charging.
> > If the lights go out
> as
> > the key is being turned to the start position the ignition switch is
> bad. I
> > have seen this many times where there is a dead spot between on and
> > start where the lights go out.
> >
> > Now this only tests from the ignition switch to the dashboard. There
> > are number of other places where the wiring to the ignition coil
> > and ECU can go bad. This is where the meter comes in. Common
> > failures are the fuse
> box
> > itself, the connectors in-out of same and a common favorite over the
> > last three years is the wire from the coli to the ECU breaking down
> > inside the insulation. It looks good but it is missing inside. You need luck or a
> > current meter-diode test to find that one. Unplugging the ECU at the
> > connector removes the load and the wiring will test good with a
> voltmeter.
> > Why you need to understand voltage drops as they relate to current
> > draw
> and
> > resistance.
> >
> > Another starting test is looking at the tachometer while cranking
> > the engine. If it is not bouncing that little bit you have an
> > ignition
> problem.
> > If it is bouncing then you can check for spark. If you have spark
> > then
> you
> > have a fuel or compression problem. Start at one end, either the
> beginning
> > or end and keep working until the fault is found.
> >
> > Practice. Disconnect something and try to diagnose it. You will
> > learn and gain confidence.
> >
> > When things go wrong and you have the confidence to deal with it you
> > then get to impress others but more importantly you eliminate fear
> > especially when far from home. This is very important since most of
> > us have these vans to go far from home.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
> > <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Grant Johnson
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2016 8:55 PM
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM <javascript:;>
> > Subject: Re: No start
> >
> > Just an update on this. I feel foolish admitting this, but maybe it
> > will help the next guy. After the van being down for a week, jury
> > rigging a
> Ford
> > fuel pump, and troubleshooting my ignition today.... The problem was
> > the new ignition switch I put in about a month ago new from the
> > flaps. Put my old one back in and Vroom!
> >
> > On Thursday, May 26, 2016, Neil N <musomuso@gmail.com
> > <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > To adapt the inlet side, you could use the older style square filter.
> > > Some say this filter causes pump to cavitate but I hear no
> > > difference running my vanagon Bosch pump with or without that
> > > filter. My fuel tank has the smaller outlet.
> > >
> > > There's a fuel pump relay bypass method shown in Bentley. Do this
> > > to see if pump runs.
> > > Search Crazyvwvanman forum name on the samba vanagon forum for a
> > > neat electrical diagnostic tool one can build. Can't recall Marks
> > > handle on this forum.
> > >
> > > Neil.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thursday, May 26, 2016, Grant Johnson <smiley.grant@gmail.com
> > <javascript:;>
> > > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','smiley.grant@gmail.com
> <javascript:;>');>>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Inlet and outlet in ford pump are both 5/16. Had a heck of a time
> > >> getting the braided hose over the barb on the outlet, too. Van
> > >> won't start so I can't say if it works or not, but it's a hundred
> > >> bucks cheaper than the vanagon pump at Napa
> > >>
> > >> On Thursday, May 26, 2016, Neil N <musomuso@gmail.com
> > >> <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> the Ford pump has same size inlet and outlet?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On 5/26/16, Grant Johnson <smiley.grant@gmail.com
> > >>> <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> > It's an 88, ... Fuel pump looked OG so I swapped in the Napa
> > >>> > pump for a Ford. That was it's own can of worms, with the fuel
> > >>> tank
> > >>> > outlet being 12 mm and the pump inlet being 7.........
> > >>> --
> > >>> Neil n
> > >>>
> > >>> Blog: Vanagons, Westfalia, general <http://tubaneil.blogspot.ca>
> > >>>
> > >>> 1988 Westy Images
> > >>> <https://picasaweb.google.com/musomuso/New1988Westy>
> > >>>
> > >>> 1981 Westfalia "Jaco" Images, technical <
> > >>> http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/>
> > >>>
> > >>> Vanagon-Bus VAG Gas Engine Swap Group
> > >>> <http://tinyurl.com/khalbay>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> > > --
> > > Neil n
> > >
> > > Blog: Vanagons, Westfalia, general <http://tubaneil.blogspot.ca>
> > >
> > > 1988 Westy Images
> > > <https://picasaweb.google.com/musomuso/New1988Westy>
> > >
> > > 1981 Westfalia "Jaco" Images, technical
> > > <http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/>
> > >
> > > Vanagon-Bus VAG Gas Engine Swap Group <http://tinyurl.com/khalbay>
> > >
> > >
> >
>
