The only thing the hard start relay kit does is help the solenoid (relay and gear engagement) work better by bypassing the other switches and wiring. It will not help a slow or no cranking starter work any better. On the other side you are introducing another failure point and many of these kits use the wrong type of relay for the solenoid inductive load and a possible failure mode is having the starter stick on or even turn on when it shouldn't. Park in your driveway in gear and find the van in the garage! Wouldn't be the first time. If you have to install a relay you want something industrial, heavy spring, double break contacts, etc.

Dennis

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Michael McSwain Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 5:22 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Is something killing my starters?

I upgraded the alternator wiring a while back and have a hard start kit on order from T3 Technique. I would think the hard start kit would lessen the need to redo the wiring from battery to switch and back to starter. I have to do something though. I'll look into the gear reduction starters. Thanks again for the advice

On Sun, Jun 26, 2016, 6:59 PM Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I would do more testing before changing that cable. It is a bit of work. > If you do change it go larger. Also upgrade the wire from the > alternator to that cable and then either run another wire up to the > fuse box-ignition switch or upgrade the wiring from the battery for same. > > As for replacing starters the gear reduction starters in general need > less current to get the job done. They use permanent magnet motors (no

> filed > coils) and the gearing makes the torque. These also require less > current for the solenoid to operate. Basically, they compensate for > our poorly designed and old worn out wiring and switches. Over the > past 2 years I have installed a number of the GoWesty units and I have not had a comeback yet. > Yes need more time to really tell. There is the option to use the > Diesel starters with an adapter. Some are still recommending a helper > relay for the solenoid on those. > > Dennis > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On > Behalf Of Michael McSwain > Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 4:26 PM > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Subject: Re: Is something killing my starters? > > Thanks for the input. I did check volts at the starter just to verify > that the juice from the ignition switch was getting there, but I'll do

> some more research in that direction and probably assume that I'll be > buying a new starter and + battery cable. > > Thanks again > > On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 3:32 PM Dennis Haynes > <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> > wrote: > > > As I mentioned in the past if you're going to do your own > > diagnostics you need to develop some skills and get some test > > equipment and learn how to use them when things work normally. There

> > are many variables that can effect proper starter operation. For > > slow cranking the correct diagnoses includes getting the actual > > voltage available at the starter motor and the current it is trying > > to draw. Normal operation is for there to still be at least 10 volts

> > at the starter motor and usual amp draw is ~ 175 amps. If the > > starter is drawing much more current than the voltage will fall. If > > it is not drawing more current and the voltage still falls you have > > a restriction either in the cable or the battery. If not drawing > > current and voltage stays high then you > have a problem in the starter. > > > > Dennis > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On > > Behalf Of Michael McSwain > > Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 3:25 PM > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > > Subject: Re: Is something killing my starters? > > > > I did read somewhere that low voltage could ruin starters and I > > suspected my + cable from the battery. It doesn't look great either > > so that's probably a decent assumption. And by the way, I did have > > the battery tested under load with one of those fancy battery > > testing gadgets. Any way to test this thing more thoroughly to make

> > sure I'm not just throwing parts at it? Any way to test the long battery cable? > > > > On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 2:09 PM John Rodgers <jrodgers113@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Hmmmm! Had the same problem on my 2.1 WBX a while back. Went thru > > > two REBUILT staeters fairly quickly. The third one got fried > > > related to a harness fire. I replaced it with an adapter available > > > from VC and put a late model high torque diesel starter on it. > > > Works fine so far. BTW, that diesel starter was brand new, in the > > > box, and cost under $100 delivered to my front door. Worth looking

> > > in to. But be sure the starter killing problem is solved first! > > > > > > John > > > On Jun 26, 2016 13:10, "Michael McSwain" > > > <michaelmcswain@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > >> I replaced my unknown age starter on my 1.9 about a year ago with

> > >> a brand new Bosch. Recently it started displaying the same > > >> symptoms as the previous one. Turning the engine over seemed to > > >> get more and more laborious and eventually it stopped doing anything at all. > > >> The last hand full of times it actually started, I turned the key

> > >> and it turned over once, then a 2 second or so silent pause then

> > >> it turned over again and cranked up. Pretty much the same exact > > >> symptoms as the > > previous starter. > > >> > > >> So far I've jumpered around my ignition switch. Nothing. I > > >> cleaned my battery/body and transmission grounds. Nothing. I > > >> bridged the starter and solenoid posts with a screw driver and > > >> got a little spark, but nothing at all from the starter motor. > > >> Silence on all counts except for the fuel pump priming which has > > >> been happening all along. Does this just sound like bad luck and

> > >> it's a bad starter or is there something else that could be > > >> causing a premature failure of the starter? > > >> > > >> I also had my battery checked and it checked out fine. I have > > >> one of those cigarette lighter volt meters that consistently > > >> shows 13.9 volts at speed. > > >> If it weren't a 1 year old Bosch starter I would have immediately

> > >> assumed that to be the problem. Am I just in denial? > > >> > > >> Any thoughts would be much appreciated > > >> > > > > > >