Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 09:37:35 -0400
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Air conditioning
In-Reply-To: <CA+r=JhoJgJ4NOon0n6fXhGfz6qOnNR14=AHOgpZjWynrb5dEfw@mail.gmail.com>
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I definitely agree with Larry. One thing you will find as a new Vanagon owner is that most regular shops are not equipped or willing to bother with vehicles of this vintage, never mind the Vanagon with its idiosyncrasies.
The air conditioning is American based but its installation layout makes for some servicing difficulties. The evaporators never go bad, the only thing that happens to them is they get clogged with dirt or the foam filter-water stopper disintegrates. There is an expansion valve that sometimes fails and there is a replacement for R-134a conversions. Servicing the evaporator or expansive valve is a labor intensive operation.
A first waring sign that you tech was not up to the job is if he knew where the high side service fitting is. So did he remove the shelf and corner piece in the rear cabinet to get to it? Not only is it important for the high side pressure to be checked as part of normal AC operation you need to make sure the radiator/condenser cooling fan goes into the higher speed mode as pressure increases ~200 psi. There is a lot of electrical involvement with this system.
As for charging the system I have really found that the initial charge especially R134a has to done by weight. I also find that topping the system off or using the stuff in cans just doesn’t provide full performance. When these come on for service I begin by a full recovery. This also tells me how much was left. Was this a slow leak of do we have a problem. Now that refrigerant in bulk is cheap I then do a full charge, 1,400 to 1,500 grams seems to give really good results. Yes this is a bit over charged but all that hose length takes it. Much more and things will go wacky.
At best the performance of the Westy AC is bit lacking. You get that nice cold draft on the back of the head and neck while the sun in your face keeps it sweating but properly working it provide great relief.
And yes,
VW- turning drivers into mechanics for over 50 years. You will soon be joining our club unless you have an awful lot of money.
As for this being low cost way to travel I have some guidelines.
If you couldn’t afford it new, you probably can’t afford it used either unless you get creative, skilled, and somewhat lucky.
These vehicles were expensive back when they were available and they didn’t sell well back then. Fun Bus was on the dealers lot for almost 6 months before I took it home.
It was for sale because some previous owner no longer wanted it. It is best if you can figure out why.
Whatever you paid it most likely was just a down payment. If you paid a lot your expectations are high and it will take more to meet or maintain those expectations.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Larry Alofs
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 8:13 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Air conditioning
You should get a second and third opinion about that evaporator replacement. There are many other and more likely causes for poor AC performance, low refrigerant charge being the most likely.
With a recirculating system, if the air it's taking in is very hot, the air coming out is not going to be very cold at first. I generally feel that my AC is working pretty well if it reduces the temp by 30F or so. This means that if the van has been standing in the sun and the air in back is 110F, the air coming out of the AC might be 80F at first. After a few minutes of circulation, it starts to feel more like actual AC.
Do you know if the system still has R-12 in it or if it has been converted to 134a or something else? Did this tech actually measure the low and high
side pressures with the system running? It's complicated. :-)
I think the saying goes something like: "VW, converting owners to mechanics for over 50 years."
Larry A.
On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 3:02 AM, Gordon Mah <gordonmahung@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you Larry, Dennis and Stan,
>
> I'll look for those "Bently" manuals even though I don't have a Bently.
> ;). I know it has freon because the tech I took it to told me that he
> checked it. Problem was that I was expecting air to come out the
> front and side vents too. Yes, they did come out the rear as you guys
> said, although not all that cold. Somebody told me that the
> "evaporator" probably needs replacing. We'll see. I'm realizing that
> Westy owners all seem to be mechanical tinkerers. Does any air ever
> come out from the side vents above the sliding door?
>
> Thanks again.
> -g
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Jun 29, 2016, at 5:05 PM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
> wrote:
> >
> > So the seller didn't show you how things work. Do you have the
> > owner's manual? You may want to get one. As a Westy or vanagon
> > newbie you will
> want
> > to get a Bentley service manual ASAP. Learn as much as possible
> > before
> tings
> > break and get ready to catch up on some overdue maintenance. If the
> > van
> is
> > low mileage it is a good bet it spent part of its life not running.
> > As
> old
> > dormant systems and rubber/plastic parts are put to use you will be
> > surprised as the things that will need service within a year.
> >
> > Freon is a brand name for refrigerants. How do you know the system
> > has an adequate charge of refrigerant if you don't know how to turn
> > it on? Does
> it
> > even have AC? For an 87 Westy the AC controls are usually to the
> > right of the radio. There is no AC from the dash vents, only the
> > vents over the
> rear
> > seat. It is common for these air conditioners to have both
> > electrical and refrigeration/leakage problems. The electrical is
> > somewhat complicated especially with the interface to the radiator
> > fan. Alldatadiy.com is a
> good
> > choice to get service information including the wiring diagrams. On
> > the Westy most of the AC electrical is inside the rear cabinet. You
> > have to remove a shelf and that corner piece for the electrics ad
> > high side
> service
> > fitting.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
> > Behalf
> Of
> > Gordon Mah
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2016 3:08 AM
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Air conditioning
> >
> > Just bought me a 1989 Westy and I can't figure out how to get the
> > air conditioning to work. It has freon. I tried all the knobs and
> > vent
> sliders
> > and all I get is either heat or just air from the outside. Does
> > anyone
> know
> > the secret combination of sliders and their positions to make this
> > baby
> keep
> > me cool on such hot days?
> >
> > Thanks!
>